Shooter41 Loc: Wichita, KS

I was recently invited to take pictures at a friend's retirement party. I went home to edit each of the 275 subject's two images stored in my Sony A7R4. (One being full length and the other a close up.) I was shooting under low light conditions without a flash, at F1.8 and 1/1600 of a second. Not being a portrait photographer, I soon realized that I didn't know if I was better off in general by starting off using my full-body shots, or the close-up shots or choosing which to use for each individual subject. (Sometimes I didn't have a choice because someone closed their eyes on one of their images.) I ended up evaluating each of the 275 subjects and picking the shot I liked the best to edit. Would any of the excellent portrait photographers on UHH care to share their rule of thumb that they follow when deciding if shooting closer is always better or shoot both close-up and full-body and then pick between the two options? Two sample images are attached. Comments are welcome. Shooter41

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rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

Generally, I find that distance is determined by how well I know the subject(s). Another rule of thumb for groups is getting everyone's eyes open. I think the rule is 3 times the number of people is the number of photographs to take of the group. In some cases, no matter how many one takes, retouching may be necessary.

As for lens, a zoom would be my first choice. Wide enough to capture full body and tele just enough to capture a portrait format.
--Bob

cahale Loc: San Angelo, TX

Depends on what you or the subject wants. Comparing the two posted is not really demonstrative, since you were forced to back off to get all 3 subjects in shot 2. Two things I do believe about portrait photography are; 1 close your mouth (of the 5 subjects in the 2 shots, only yellow shirt subject looks natural, because he is not doing the "cheese" thing) 2 look slightly away from a direct gaze at the camera (just a little bit will change the point from "what am I looking at" to "I'm not even aware you're there, so I look natural." Just my idea on portraits (which I don't do a lot of because most people aren't interesting).

Tom Hungerford Loc: Thomaston CT

Neither of your two portraits are "bad", so to speak. But there are many suggestions to make to improve the images. In #1, I would have turned the lady to HER RIGHT slightly, and asked her to lean her head slightly toward the gentleman. Also, I would have taken it vertically.

In #2, I would have the lady nearer the gentleman on the left and turned to HER RIGHT, letting the man on the right move closer to her. Also, I would have had her stand on a couple of books, to bring her yes much closer to the two gentleman. I much prefer a vertical shot for two people.

Shooter41 Loc: Wichita, KS

Bob... Thank you for recommending I use a zoom lens on my next portrait outing. I have an F2.8, 70-200 zoom that I could have used, but I thought the party was going to be held in the usual room I have photographed several times before and my 135mm master lens which goes to F1.8 and is perfect for that room. But when I arrived, I quickly learned that the party was being held in a totally new room to me that I had never seen before and my 70-200mm zoom lens would have been a much better choice. Therefore, I had to improvise and shoot from a vertical camera position when there were just two subjects and shoot from a horizontal camera position when there were three or more subjects. The lesson I learned was it is a good idea to find out which room the party will be in and check it out in advance to be able to know what camera and lenses to pack my camera bag before the event to avoid being stuck with the wrong gear for the situation. Shooter41

Shooter41 Loc: Wichita, KS

Dear cahale...Thank you for the helpful posing suggestions you made. Unfortunately at this event, I was at least 50 feet away from the subjects in a giant toom with the crowd noise making it impossible for me to be heard even if I shouted at the subjects. Therefore, I was not able to talk to them or pose them. The retiree simply visited with attendees for several minutes and then quickly had them turn toward the camera for me to take their pictures. (IE...Nobody was able to pose any of the subjects.) I will be able to make good use of your helpful suggestions on another occasion when I am close to the subject or subjects and can pose them any way I want before I push the shutter button and take as many shots as I need.) Shooter41

Shooter41 Loc: Wichita, KS

Dear Tom...Nice black and white portrait you attached. I appreciate you posing suggestions and will take them into account the next time I get to take portraits much closer to the subjects and under conditions where I can give the subjects verbal posing instructions. At this event I was over 50 feet away from the retiree and his guests and left my zoom lens at home because I thought the event was in another room. The crowd of 200-300 people were coming and going and carrying on loud conversations. It was impossible for me to give any instructions and the retiree just pointed at me and told his guests to turn toward the camera. No posing instructions given by anyone. People were walking between me and the subjects constantly and I often had to wait and then had maybe 20 seconds to do my two shots before the subject or subjects turned and left so the next group could visit with the retiree for a minute and get their picture taken. It wasn't at all like a portrait studio setup. Thank you for your input. Shooter41

Harry0 Loc: Gardena, Cal

Most folk I know like using lenses in the 100s.
You'v seen fish eye type lenses, the nose gets huuge pointed at the camera?
Like door mounted peeps? Fun and silly shots- but nice nor flattering.
There are lots of terms for this as part of the "root-mean-square" principle.
The closer something is the larger the ratios.
If a model is one foot away, one inch is eight percent. Big nose!
If a model is ten feet away, one inch is negligible. Normal nose.
So called "portrait" lenses are usually from 120 to 150mm to do that.
.

camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.

I am not what you could call an expert portrait photographer nor do I claim to be one. Like a majority of people here I have shot portraits with ambient light and in the studio. I do like to shoot portraits but volunteers are hard to come by, at least among my family.
Although I favor my 105mm lens for portraits I will be the first one to say that if I am going to be shooting a party a zoom would be my first choice.

I like both of your portraits. Although posing during an event such as that is usually pretty informal if there is time to shoot improvements can be done to the posing. I am sure you know that neither one of these two shots is what we can call full body portrait. The first one is the typical head and shoulder while the second one is a 3/4 body shot. Which one to shoot first? This is difficult for me to answer, some shots do better as head and shoulder. Groups tend to be better full body. I just go by "instinct." No rules here.

If I have to shoot in low light I could be using a flash and if at all possible I will bounce it. Raising the ISO is another possibility but I like the bounced flash with its extra illumination and in most cases the absence of noise.
If these samples you have shown us are among the many others you shot I believe you did very well.

photoman43

In "getting closer" just make sure that there is enough depth of field for the f stop you are using so the eyes and the nose are both sharp. (I admit this is not likely to be a problem in most situations.) And changing your position can have a big impact on how backgrounds present in the image.

I use my 85mm f1.8 a lot for portraits as the lens looks "small" to the subject and light and easy for me to use. If I cannot get close enough then I might use a 105mm or a 70-200mm.

Read up on hyperfocal distance and depth of field and check out the various depth of field and other calculators on the internet. The depth of field range (front to back of subject) can change a lot based on your distance from the subject.

https://photographylife.com/landscapes/hyperfocal-distance-explained


https://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

Dickwood33 Loc: Alberta, Canada

I have found that shooting in 'burst' mode improves your odds of getting a decent composition, eliminates many of the eye blinks and head turns that ruin a shot. 1 to 2 seconds in slow burst mode should do the trick and give you a good selection from which to choose. Doesn't take really any longer than a single exposure.

PHRubin Loc: Nashville TN USA

If I may bring up a point unrelated to the original question, why such a high speed (1/1600) and consequently high ISO (5000)? The result is an image with noticeable noise. I would use 1/60 or 1/120 for people who are posing, and that is probably fast.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

👍👍 exactly my comment.

Shooter41 Loc: Wichita, KS

Dear HarryO...Thanks for pointing out that portrait lenses are usually 120-150mm. I'm safe because I was shooting a 135mm Master Sony lens by accident and at 50 feet away, their noses all looked normal. Had I known that the event was going to occur in a much larger room I had never seen before, I would have brought my 70-200mm zoom; and shot off of a tripod to avoid my arms getting too tired over the three-hour-event. The lesson I learned is to call ahead and find out which room the event will occur in and check it out before the event so that I know what lenses to pack in my camera bag in advance. That way I could have gotten much closer than 50 feet and avoided many of the attendees walking between me and my subjects while I was shooting. I had to improvise and shoot from vertical camera position when there were two subjects and horizontal position when there were three or more subjects. Shooter51

elee950021 Loc: New York, NY

Nice portraits! Always remember the 1968 Tomi Ungerer quote and NYC's Village Voice Weekly's poster:

"Expect the Unexpected!" I alway do! Be well! Ed

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