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Does orientation matter? The same image?
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Aug 28, 2022 07:39:29   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
dustie wrote:
If you are seeing the reversed-/flipped-image videos on youtube, there is www "advice" which "counsels" youtube channel posters to flip the video, or portions thereof, to bypass/nullify/reduce/negate -- whatever -- the copyright infringement violations.

Just think, some of us post still images here on UHH, and in this exact topic thread, we are discussing/considering flipped images and the part about copyright infringement has not been added in as a part of........ ....... potential copyright infringement "technique" embraced by thievery mongers.
If you are seeing the reversed-/flipped-image vide... (show quote)


Ah, interesting! That makes sense.

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Aug 28, 2022 08:07:30   #
delder Loc: Maryland
 
Yes!
The context of the SPACE a PRINT is displayed in or an image is displayed ON can drive a decision to flip a picture.
CAUTION with Man-Made objects however, they may contain hidden tells. A train buff may be able to spot a flipped engine.

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Aug 28, 2022 09:31:09   #
rlv567 Loc: Baguio City, Philippines
 
delder wrote:
Yes!
The context of the SPACE a PRINT is displayed in or an image is displayed ON can drive a decision to flip a picture.
CAUTION with Man-Made objects however, they may contain hidden tells. A train buff may be able to spot a flipped engine.



Was anyone hurt when it flipped???

Loren - in Beautiful Baguio City

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Aug 28, 2022 09:36:11   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
rlv567 wrote:
Was anyone hurt when it flipped???

Loren - in Beautiful Baguio City


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Aug 28, 2022 10:05:12   #
gwilliams6
 
robertjerl wrote:
You are welcome.
Where do you teach?
I graduated from California State College at Los Angeles and then they changed the name so I took my graduate studies and added a major in photo to my majors in history and geography and obtained my teaching credential from California State University at Los Angeles without even changing schools.
I taught photography for one year at an LA High School in the early 70's then back to teaching history etc. Over Christmas break the year I taught photo I went to Mammoth Mountain to visit a friend from the Army and his wife. While there I saw an ad for a photo teacher - their local high school was adding photo to their art department. I inquired (what a place to teach photography) and found out they already had a couple of hundred applications including a bunch of people with Master's in photography and one guy who was teaching photo at a community college but was willing to move "down" to a high school to be in Mammoth. Oh, well, it was a nice dream for a few hours.
You are welcome. br Where do you teach? br I gradu... (show quote)


I have taught for nine years at Rowan University, part of the State University system of New Jersey, teaching Digital Photography, Photojournalism, and 35mm B&W film photography courses. Before that I taught Photojournalism at the then Philadelphia College of Art, now the University of the Arts in Philadelphia, Pa.

Never give up on any dream.

I started teaching with my longtime professional photojournalism career and my BFA degree in Photography from R.I.T.. Later I got my Master's Degree in Digital Photography from SCAD (savannah College of Art & Design). I was born in Los Angeles, but have spent most of my personal and professional life in the East. Now I live in Texas, freelancing and teaching.

Cheers and best to you.

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Aug 28, 2022 12:12:18   #
User ID
 
JimBart wrote:
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Whichever pleases you is the best
.............


(Download)

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Aug 28, 2022 15:36:11   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
gwilliams6 wrote:
I have taught for nine years at Rowan University, part of the State University system of New Jersey, teaching Digital Photography, Photojournalism, and 35mm B&W film photography courses. Before that I taught Photojournalism at the then Philadelphia College of Art, now the University of the Arts in Philadelphia, Pa.

Never give up on any dream.

I started teaching with my longtime professional photojournalism career and my BFA degree in Photography from R.I.T.. Later I got my Master's Degree in Digital Photography from SCAD (savannah College of Art & Design). I was born in Los Angeles, but have spent most of my personal and professional life in the East. Now I live in Texas, freelancing and teaching.

Cheers and best to you.
I have taught for nine years at Rowan University, ... (show quote)


My two professors were a graduate of the USC's film school and the Pasadena Art Center College of Design. I took mostly classes in Cinematography Animation and commercially oriented still photography since the two of them were into those things. The one guy did a lot of short animation work and the other guy had Ford's west coast division as his main client but made time to teach because he wanted to teach.

Our youngest, Jasmine seems to be destined to mostly be on the East Coast after being born and growing up here in the LA Metro Area. Pre-Med at UCLA and now Med School at the University of Virginia. Next May I get to call her "Doctor". She is actually in her 5th year of Med School because as she put it "Those Covid Zoom classes sucked!" so she spent most of a year working as a research assistant for one of her professors so she could still remain a student. She also did a lot of the writing of the research and got her name on the paper with the professor's. Her second research paper as a co-author since she also did one under a doctor my wife had worked with for years as a Surgical RN. That research and writing was mostly done at Kaiser Los Angeles and Kaiser Riverside medical centers during her year's break after UCLA to pick a med school and go for interviews etc. She was accepted by several Med Schools and she picked UVA.

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Aug 28, 2022 17:22:43   #
one_eyed_pete Loc: Colonie NY
 
clickety wrote:
There have been discussions about whether we see from left to right or from right to left. Here is an image which after cropping I simply flipped from left to right, I sense it has changed. Do you see the difference and which do you prefer and why. Bonus points if you can tell me which was the original orientation?


It only depends if the viewer is left eyed, right eyed or one eyed!

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Aug 28, 2022 19:22:07   #
dustie Loc: Nose to the grindstone
 
rlv567 wrote:
Interesting! The picture follows the "rule" of not having the "subject" of the picture centered - and the action or intent - should be toward the open space, rather than out of the near side. When I compose or view a picture, I don't think at all about intent, point of entry, eye movement, stressful or relaxing, flow – or anything else. Basically, the ONLY thing I think about is what LOOKS BEST to me!!!

For me, the first picture is by far the better. I generally prefer the open space to be on the right side, but it does depend on the specific picture.

Those things being said – and who knows how much effect it might have – I was born left-handed, but switched over by my parents, such that those things which are natural, I do left, while those which are learned, I do right. And for some, I’m ambidextrous – such as switch hitting or basketball dribbling and shooting. (I could hit for a better average, left, but with more power, right.)

I long have wondered about something else, also. On a motorcycle, it always has been more comfortable laying the bike over hard into a left turn than right.

Again, interesting!!!

Loren – in Beautiful Baguio City
Interesting! The picture follows the "rule&q... (show quote)


rlv567 wrote:
Those things being said – and who knows how much effect it might have – I was born left-handed, but switched over by my parents, such that those things which are natural, I do left, while those which are learned, I do right. And for some, I’m ambidextrous – such as switch hitting or basketball dribbling and shooting. (I could hit for a better average, left, but with more power, right.)

It could be difficult to gauge how much effect those things may have on the way photos are viewed and comprehended -- how to gauge if there is a direct correlation.
Probably for a well-trained, experienced scientific researcher/investigator there are specific tests and criteria which can be utilized to gain insight into the answer to that.
There are other factors which likely influence swinging the ball bat, using a shovel, axe, hammer, shooting the basketball, etc. Things related to dominant / non-dominant eye, strength balance or imbalance between left side -- right side, and other inherent natural variations which make us individually more comfortable doing certain things right-sided or left-sided. Does that affect how general population (not scientific experts) people naturally view photos??? Hmmmm......

(As a complete brief diversion down a different path:
-- having worked with different livestock herding dogs, it is quite apparent some are much more naturally comfortable circling stock in a counterclockwise direction, others naturally in a clockwise direction, and some don't exhibit a natural preference for either one over the other -- circling right or circling left seems all the same to them. [Some horses exhibit right side / left side preferences, too.]
Of course, any dog which is going to be highly useful in a range of situations needs to be trained to work in each direction. It takes a lot more repetition and practice in the direction which does not come naturally to the dog, and it may never reach the same level of proficiency in each direction....the natural inclination direction may always be obviously done more fluidly and skillfully.
I contend it's not only humans who have individual right-handed / left-handed / ambidexterous tendencies.)

------------------
rlv567 wrote:
I long have wondered about something else, also. On a motorcycle, it always has been more comfortable laying the bike over hard into a left turn than right.

Doesn't a lot of that have to do with location of throttle (mostly) and rear brake pedal?
The physiological alignment factors of having the throttle wrist down and under as compared to up and on top seems to affect my comfort/discomfort in the turning comparisons both in pavement- and dirt- riding.
I rode an early sixties Triumph bike (made before left shift - right brake standardization) for a couple or three weeks. All my previous motorcycle riding had been on Japanese bikes, and the right foot shift - left foot brake on the Triumph was a little learning curve, but not terrible, but, in that amount of time, I never did get as comfortable with left hand turns on that bike as compared to left turns on Japanese bikes.
In dirt-riding, it is more comfortable to keep my right foot near the brake pedal in a left turn than it is to drop the right foot down for posting a right turn.

In some things we just have to train and practice and train and practice and train and practice in order to do them with any degree of acceptability, if there is a natural tendency to be uncomfortable / awkward / inept / klutz-prone in the doing.

Is the way we view photos influenced by repetitive training for those who've had extensive instructions in photography compared against those of us who just muddle along by seat-of-the-pants "this way seems natural"?

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Aug 28, 2022 19:22:41   #
dustie Loc: Nose to the grindstone
 
one_eyed_pete wrote:
It only depends if the viewer is left eyed, right eyed or one eyed!



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Aug 28, 2022 19:23:58   #
dustie Loc: Nose to the grindstone
 
goldenyears wrote:
If I move to the right of the monitor to look at the picture, I prefer the one where the bird enters the picture from the left. But if I move to left of the monitor, I prefer the one with the bird entering the picture from the right. Hmmm... if I kneel down and look up at the monitor, I feel like I'm going to drown.



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Aug 28, 2022 21:35:41   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
Another addition to the fun and games.

I have a rather unusual problem when it comes to the orientation of things. I am right handed, but left eye dominant. As a result things get a bit mixed up for me and several things I have taught myself to do ambidextrously but usually just a bit slower when doing them left handed.

In the Army when my company was getting our requalifications before shipping out to Vietnam I was in a bit of a "mood" so I was shooting right handed, then flipping the rifle up and catching it to shoot left handed for a few shots then back again. The people in my unit had seen me do that before but the Rangemaster almost had a stroke. Then he realized that not only was I scoring "Expert" with both hands but I was also firing at about twice the rate of everyone else. The 150 meter popup target on my lane was broken, it would go just far enough down when hit to indicate a score then pop right back up. I ripped off a whole 20 round magazine so fast it sounded like full auto and the target looked like a flag flapping in the wind. The Rangemaster was right behind me and told my scorer "I don't know if all 20 were hits but give him a score of 20. And tell him not to get mad at me."

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Aug 28, 2022 22:32:10   #
rlv567 Loc: Baguio City, Philippines
 
dustie wrote:
Doesn't a lot of that have to do with location of throttle (mostly) and rear brake pedal?
The physiological alignment factors of having the throttle wrist down and under as compared to up and on top seems to affect my comfort/discomfort in the turning comparisons both in pavement- and dirt- riding.
I rode an early sixties Triumph bike (made before left shift - right brake standardization) for a couple or three weeks. All my previous motorcycle riding had been on Japanese bikes, and the right foot shift - left foot brake on the Triumph was a little learning curve, but not terrible, but, in that amount of time, I never did get as comfortable with left hand turns on that bike as compared to left turns on Japanese bikes.
In dirt-riding, it is more comfortable to keep my right foot near the brake pedal in a left turn than it is to drop the right foot down for posting a right turn.

In some things we just have to train and practice and train and practice and train and practice in order to do them with any degree of acceptability, if there is a natural tendency to be uncomfortable / awkward / inept / klutz-prone in the doing.

Is the way we view photos influenced by repetitive training for those who've had extensive instructions in photography compared against those of us who just muddle along by seat-of-the-pants "this way seems natural"?
Doesn't a lot of that have to do with location of ... (show quote)



I have owned/ridden many bikes over some 50 years of motorcycles - American, Swedish, Spanish, Chinese, and mostly Japanese, and by my recollection, at least, it has made no difference. Dealing with control position differences has been no problem. Different handling characteristics and power utilization (on-the-pipe vs pull from any rpm) take a little getting used to, depending on the riding situation, but very little. Again, as I recall, left turn vs right was the same with all.

As an aside, at one time I owned two cars - one a stick and the other automatic - which I drove interchangeably. I never once tried to shift the automatic or stalled the stick by forgetting to use the clutch.

I think the key to this situation is that we all are different - in many ways! There may be occasional exceptions, but for the most part, when I look at a picture, I look at the whole thing, and either like it or don't. If someone has pointed out some particular aspect of the photo, I usually will look at that first, however. And again, when it's a picture I have taken, I do with it that which pleases me, unless someone has a specific request I will fill.

Loren - in Beautiful Baguio City

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Aug 29, 2022 15:23:18   #
dustie Loc: Nose to the grindstone
 
clickety wrote:
Does one of them seem right vs wrong, better etc.? Or is my memory of the scene causing the perceived difference?


These particular, specific questions have kept resurfacing in the obscure corners in the back of this dustie mind.
Soooo........
I tried an unscientific, unguided test.
Picking more than a couple dozen photos I've taken, I viewed them each way, as yours are presented here. None of the photos have any items that would provide "tells" indicating a correct or backward presentation.

The unscientific result is:
•• some of the reversed/flipped photos stir an immediate, strong revulsion reaction, and going back for looking at them a few times over a space of three or four hours, does not help to make them seem acceptable in the reversed position.

•• some of the reversed photos seem just a little bit "off", not terrible, in the first few looks, but after going back and looking at them a few times, they really don't look "wrong" anymore.

•• some of the reversed photos leave no impression of being "off" nor "wrong" at any time.

I am not able to pinpoint any obvious, specific, common characteristics which make a reversed photo seem either yuck!!!!; hmmmm.....I could get used to it; or, just fine either way.

Unscientific conclusion:
When the person who took and processed a photo sees it presented in a reversed presentation, there may be more to this than meets the eye, (considering of course, I may not be a scientifically viable, normal candidate for such a test. 🤓 🥴 )

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Aug 29, 2022 15:34:19   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
dustie wrote:
These particular, specific questions have kept resurfacing in the obscure corners in the back of this dustie mind.
Soooo........
I tried an unscientific, unguided test.
Picking more than a couple dozen photos I've taken, I viewed them each way, as yours are presented here. None of the photos have any items that would provide "tells" indicating a correct or backward presentation.

The unscientific result is:
•• some of the reversed/flipped photos stir an immediate, strong revulsion reaction, and going back for looking at them a few times over a space of three or four hours, does not help to make them seem acceptable in the reversed position.

•• some of the reversed photos seem just a little bit "off", not terrible, in the first few looks, but after going back and looking at them a few times, they really don't look "wrong" anymore.

•• some of the reversed photos leave no impression of being "off" nor "wrong" at any time.

I am not able to pinpoint any obvious, specific, common characteristics which make a reversed photo seem either yuck!!!!; hmmmm.....I could get used to it; or, just fine either way.

Unscientific conclusion:
When the person who took and processed a photo sees it presented in a reversed presentation, there may be more to this than meets the eye, (considering of course, I may not be a scientifically viable, normal candidate for such a test. 🤓 🥴 )
These particular, specific questions have kept res... (show quote)


Perception.....

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