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Topaz AI Sharpen Etc.
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Aug 22, 2022 11:26:16   #
srg
 
Architect1776 wrote:
What is wrong?

If your fantastic super duper digital camera and hyper sharp lenses are so awesome why does everyone need AI sharpening and all these other dozens of programs to fix the utter failures of their equipment performance?

SOOC should be just fine from your $6K cameras and $12,000K lenses.
But apparently they are hardly sharp at all and desperately need lots of help.
Or is it such poor technique with all this super equipment that the photos need salvaging?

A friend wants to know.
What is wrong? br br If your fantastic super dupe... (show quote)


Your friend does not possess artistic vision. Also, if his eyes are as limited as the greatest sensor one can buy, his vision is limited too.

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Aug 22, 2022 11:39:06   #
Toment Loc: FL, IL
 
TRAVLR38 wrote:
Architect opened an interesting thread on the uses or non-uses of AI plug-ins. But there is one use that none of the respondents mentioned. In fact, I have never seen this use discussed on these pages.
That is the ability to avoid the $6K cameras and the $12K lenses in favor of less expensive, more portable cameras.
Don't get me wrong. I have a very good camera an Olympus E-M1ii and a pro 12-100 lens. this combination must be handled with care, it is so sharp. But I generally use this set up (or primes for indoors) for sports.
But for most everything else, I use a bridge camera--either a Panasonic FZ1000 or ZS100. Both of these are versatile and provide good results. They are much more portable than the Oly, and I waste no time changing lenses. The ZS100 is always with me or in my car. I can't imagine carrying the Oly and a bagful of lenses all of the places I go with my Panasonics. The sharpness may not equal the Oly, but with a touch of AI, they come close.
For the most part I use Topaz AI Clear, which is part of the Topaz Studio plug-in. I find it much faster than Denoise AI or Sharpen AI. It both removes noise at three levels AND sharpens at the same time.
If I have to crop to a small portion of the image, I use On1 Resize rather than Gigapixel, as it is faster and gives more choices for size. The results from these products give quite acceptable results in terms of noise and definition.
By the way, I think the current mania for sharpness is overdone. You can examine an image at 100 or 200 percent looking for noise or lack of sharpness, but if you print the image at a reasonable size, such as 16 x 12 inches, you will never notice the "faults." A wise person once told me that if you can's see it from two feet, it doesn't exist. What is more important to me is the overall impact of the image.
Architect opened an interesting thread on the uses... (show quote)


Excellent
Thanks

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Aug 22, 2022 11:54:19   #
Canisdirus
 
Some of these comments...lol.

All of you...everyone...me included...at the time we purchased our cameras...we all sought the most for our coin.

Nothing has changed...nothing at all.

Stop buying... a personal choice...your hardware stops with you.

It's the world of electronics now in photography...and proceeds at that pace.

Don't want to keep up with the latest?...who cares...that's fine.

But don't fool yourself in thinking you haven't fallen behind...you have.
The pace is quicker than ever before.

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Aug 22, 2022 12:43:56   #
DWU2 Loc: Phoenix Arizona area
 
Architect1776 wrote:
What is wrong?

If your fantastic super duper digital camera and hyper sharp lenses are so awesome why does everyone need AI sharpening and all these other dozens of programs to fix the utter failures of their equipment performance?

SOOC should be just fine from your $6K cameras and $12,000K lenses.
But apparently they are hardly sharp at all and desperately need lots of help.
Or is it such poor technique with all this super equipment that the photos need salvaging?

A friend wants to know.
What is wrong? br br If your fantastic super dupe... (show quote)


In spite of all our best efforts, NO photo is perfect coming out of the camera. Sometimes the light is so poor that we have to shoot at an ISO higher than the manufacturer recommends. Does anyone object to cropping? Film photographers did it in the darkroom from the get-go. What if there's litter in the shot and no way to avoid getting it in the photo? What if you used a fairly wide f-stop and decide in post that around the edges of the subject, you wished it was sharper. I don't run with the SOOC crowd - I take the best photos I can and then happily improve them in post.

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Aug 22, 2022 13:20:07   #
Jules Karney Loc: Las Vegas, Nevada
 
Architect1776 wrote:
What is wrong?

If your fantastic super duper digital camera and hyper sharp lenses are so awesome why does everyone need AI sharpening and all these other dozens of programs to fix the utter failures of their equipment performance?

SOOC should be just fine from your $6K cameras and $12,000K lenses.
But apparently they are hardly sharp at all and desperately need lots of help.
Or is it such poor technique with all this super equipment that the photos need salvaging?

A friend wants to know.
What is wrong? br br If your fantastic super dupe... (show quote)


Because of the company I work for (CBS) Maxpreps which covers all high school sports they have a thing about noise and shots being sharp. I don't own a new $6k camera, but do own some very nice lenses. I use the sharpening tool from Topaz very rarely but do use the Denoise program to help with the noise levels. Especially when it comes to night football and basketball. I will be shooting at 8000-10000 iso. I shoot tight to minimize the noise but still need help in those areas.
Good topic of conversation. Glad you brought it up. This shot Nikon D500 1/1250 at 2.8 iso 8000
Jules


(Download)

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Aug 22, 2022 13:31:52   #
Jules Karney Loc: Las Vegas, Nevada
 
tomc601 wrote:
I have a good camera (D800) albeit long in the tooth now. The last lens I purchased was a Nikon 28-300, used, about 5 years ago. Before that was in 2001. Some of my lenses are brand name, others not. I'm closer to 80 than 70. I've been photographing since 1963 when I shot my first wedding. I've never been happy with SOOC images. When I was shooting film I was always a bit disappointed in the sharpness of my images even though I got the best the camera, lens, film could do at the time. Then, we had to settle for what we got. When digital came I jumped in with both feet (mind you, I was an executive of a major film company by then) and I was amazed at what Unsharp Mask could do. Like most of us, I cranked that sucker up so high it made your eyes bleed. So, I see nothing wrong with using whatever tool available to you to bring your images to what you perceived when you shot it. I don't crank up USM any more, in fact I don't even use it. I have a sharpening technique that I've developed using several tools that give my images the look I want. Because that's what we're talking about, isn't it? Not what your equipment can give you but what you can give to your viewer.
I have a good camera (D800) albeit long in the too... (show quote)


Well said sir.

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Aug 22, 2022 13:41:14   #
pecohen Loc: Central Maine
 
traderjohn wrote:
It is software developed by someone else's genius that makes them what they are not.


And the same could be said for the camera and the lens. They are all just tools and your contribution is applying the tools.

Reply
 
 
Aug 22, 2022 14:26:54   #
davyboy Loc: Anoka Mn.
 
kymarto wrote:
No lens is perfect. No lens has the same MTF performance at low contrast as at high contrast. Deconvolution can recreate sharp contrast transitions that the lens blurs. I find it silly not to use whatever tools are available to improve an image. In video, grading is always part of high-end production, sometimes costing thousands of dollars an hour. No high-end production uses images SOOC, and the same can be said about commercial photography. Only amateurs pride themselves on SOOC, because they are either ignorant of or too lazy to do what can be done to improve images in post.
No lens is perfect. No lens has the same MTF perf... (show quote)


Are you saying all sooc shooter’s are lazy?

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Aug 22, 2022 14:35:06   #
davyboy Loc: Anoka Mn.
 
rmalarz wrote:
To quote a renowned master, "You don't take a photograph, you make it.”

This is aimed at the "fix it in post" crowd. The entire process from conception to finished print should be planned. The concept of getting anything and fixing it through the magic of software is a fool's path.
--Bob


How long does one have to plan the shot? Seconds?

Reply
Aug 22, 2022 14:48:53   #
davyboy Loc: Anoka Mn.
 
TRAVLR38 wrote:
Architect opened an interesting thread on the uses or non-uses of AI plug-ins. But there is one use that none of the respondents mentioned. In fact, I have never seen this use discussed on these pages.
That is the ability to avoid the $6K cameras and the $12K lenses in favor of less expensive, more portable cameras.
Don't get me wrong. I have a very good camera an Olympus E-M1ii and a pro 12-100 lens. this combination must be handled with care, it is so sharp. But I generally use this set up (or primes for indoors) for sports.
But for most everything else, I use a bridge camera--either a Panasonic FZ1000 or ZS100. Both of these are versatile and provide good results. They are much more portable than the Oly, and I waste no time changing lenses. The ZS100 is always with me or in my car. I can't imagine carrying the Oly and a bagful of lenses all of the places I go with my Panasonics. The sharpness may not equal the Oly, but with a touch of AI, they come close.
For the most part I use Topaz AI Clear, which is part of the Topaz Studio plug-in. I find it much faster than Denoise AI or Sharpen AI. It both removes noise at three levels AND sharpens at the same time.
If I have to crop to a small portion of the image, I use On1 Resize rather than Gigapixel, as it is faster and gives more choices for size. The results from these products give quite acceptable results in terms of noise and definition.
By the way, I think the current mania for sharpness is overdone. You can examine an image at 100 or 200 percent looking for noise or lack of sharpness, but if you print the image at a reasonable size, such as 16 x 12 inches, you will never notice the "faults." A wise person once told me that if you can's see it from two feet, it doesn't exist. What is more important to me is the overall impact of the image.
Architect opened an interesting thread on the uses... (show quote)


Amen brother! You make wayyyy to much sense. Thanks for bringing sanity back to this forum

Reply
Aug 22, 2022 15:12:42   #
Extreme54 Loc: Clarkston, Michigan
 
When you shoot in poor lightening, have you thought of adjusting your white balance?

Reply
 
 
Aug 22, 2022 15:29:13   #
pminyard Loc: Bartlett, Tennessee
 
You've spent a lot of money on some great equipment, but it's cold and wet and you are till waiting for the perfect shot. Quickly, it happens and you take your best shot as the sun slips behind a cloud. The moment's gone, but you got your shot. Now you get home, check the histogram and wish you could adjust it just a little. t dawns on you that you have some software that will do the trick, but you must be honest and just use the shot as you took it! NOT! You do what you have to do to come up with the best you can do and you thank the nameless soul that coded that software.

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Aug 22, 2022 15:54:21   #
sippyjug104 Loc: Missouri
 
I've been told that there was only one perfect guy and they hung him on a cross so the rest of us will most likely not want to be perfect. This means that our images may need a bit of enhancement to make them more pleasing to us.

However, it all comes down to what you have to work with. It's like I would tell the customers when they wanted us to make their systems do something that they were not capable of doing, "You can't make chicken soup out of chicken poop! It's also unlikely to make a perfect image from one where there is no digital data to work with such as blown-out brights, crushed shadows, and out-of-focus areas.

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Aug 22, 2022 15:56:59   #
stan0301 Loc: Colorado
 
Remember your original image is only about an inch on the long side

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Aug 22, 2022 16:16:00   #
pecohen Loc: Central Maine
 
Extreme54 wrote:
When you shoot in poor lightening, have you thought of adjusting your white balance?


No. That is one thing I don't need to be bothered with when shooting. It is so easy to adjust white balance in PP.

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