akamerica

Currently my photo printer is the Canon Pro-100. I select the Canon paper type I will print on (luster/high gloss) whose specifications are contained in the ICC profile (that becomes an ICM profile on Windows) for the output color?

I have many sheets of Epson printer paper that I would like to use.

My question for the Hedgehog brain trust: Do I select the Canon ICM that closely matches the Epson paper type, i.e. Premium Glossy, Matt, etc. OR is there a benefit to add the Epson paper profiles to my selection dialog for the Canon Pro-100? Is that even possible?

Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States

I simply select paper type (glossy, matte, ...).
Viewers of the print will never realize that there may be a difference in using an ICC profile compared to not.
Only the photographer knows for sure.
The photographer would be the only one concerned with any difference. Not the viewing public.

Perfection...

CamB Loc: Juneau, Alaska

Why not use the exact profile for the paper you are using? That’s what it was designed for. Every paper I use has its profile in my compute.
…Cam

akamerica

Hi Cam

What profile would I use for the Epson paper? A Canon profile? That is the question.

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

That only works if you can find a profile for that paper that was created for that printer.

For example, Red River (and others) provide a different profile for each of their papers and for each of my Epson printers (R2880 and P900) and separate profiles for Canon printers.

But I can actually use almost any P900 matte profile when printing on any matte paper and almost any non-matte profile for any glossy, metallic, luster or semi-gloss paper. The only thing that changes is that the overall brightness and maximum black might be darker for some profiles than for others.

But if I am printing a color image, none of the ICC profiles ends up with the wrong colors.

CamB Loc: Juneau, Alaska

It hadn’t occurred to me that Epson might not make a profile for a canon printer. Then just go with what looks OK. I use Epson and Red River Proflies.
…Cam

tcthome Loc: NJ

It (ICC) was designed to be used with the Epson printers The ICC might be different for every different Epson printer for each Epson paper. It is worth a try & might just work out well. The most correct way would be to make/create a profile for the printer/paper combo. Like mentioned above, choose the closest possible like semi gloss luster, matte & give it a try.

Jrhoffman75 Loc: Conway, New Hampshire

For RC type papers (the ones with plastic material backing) similar media surfaces generally print OK with off-brand ICC profiles.

Since you have both papers just run a comparison print using the Canon settings with both paper types.

gmar3180 Loc: Waxahachie, TX

I think all paper manufacturers have ICC Profiles for their papers. Just go to their website and download it.

Jrhoffman75 Loc: Conway, New Hampshire

Not totally correct. Papers from printer manufacturers (like Canon and Epson) don’t provide ICC profiles for other printers.

Strodav Loc: Houston, Tx

Just a thought, go over to Red River papers and download their profiles for your specific printer and the nearest paper they have to your Epson papers. https://www.redrivercatalog.com/profiles/canon-pro-100-icc-printer-color-profiles.html

one_eyed_pete Loc: Colonie NY

First, I suggest you check out YouTube videos by JToolman or Jose's fb group. You can find more info about printing than you ever want to know. Your Pro-100 is very popular. Second, you need to know that to get the most accurate ICC profile you need to get a specific ICC profile generated using the exact printer, Ink and paper combination you will be using. Even printers from the same mfg and model can be slightly different (tolerances). I also suggest you get a "standard image" (not one of your images) to print using ICC profiles to determine which gives you the best color neutral result. If the B&W scale shows a color cast it's not color neutral. Jose's fb group has download files of standard images. You may find a Canon provided ICC profile may give you the best result on Epson paper or vice versa. It doesn't hurt to try many different ICC profiles/paper combinations. Just make sure you're not double profiling (ie. letting printer and editing software both managing color). Double profiling causes unpredictable results.

jeff1234 Loc: Kirkland, WA

ITSupplies.com (Previously Atlex) will send you a target to print with your printer and generate an ICC profile for that paper and your specific printer. No charge.

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

There is quite an industry of equipment and services surrounding the question of ICC profiles. It's based on the notion that we need the profiles to be "accurate". Do we really? What does accurate get us?

Beware of the hype coming from the industry. Unless someone makes a serious mistake, all color profiles will produce colors that are correct and tonality that proceeds appropriately from white to black. As you move from paper white where the actual color of the paper shows through you are looking at darker and more saturated mixtures of ink that soon hide the color of the paper.

All ICC profiles are generated from a pattern of patches (about 400-2500) made on a particular paper with a particular printer with the ICC profile mechanism disabled by a program like Qimage. The profile comes from a comparison of the printed result to an ideal set of values for each patch. The primary goal is for the gray patches to come out neutral (red=green=blue) and for the color patches to achieve the desired colors. Another goal is to for the neutral gray patches to cover the range from paper white (no ink, RGB=255,255,255) to maximum black (RGB=0,0,0) without introducing any non-neutral shifts along the way.

The industry's job is to to convince the public that we can't live without "accurate" ICC profiles and that we need to invest our time and money to get things right. Caveat emptor!

I just spent a couple of weeks testing different ICC profiles and media type settings.

I wanted to see the effect of selecting the wrong media type. The media type selection separates matte from non-matte paper to let the printer use the correct black ink. It's secondary goal is to match the amount of ink laid down to the right paper surface. This matters more within the matte family since there is a greater variety of surfaces available.

Then I picked an appropriate media type and tried a variety of ICC profiles designed for my printer on a mix of papers. I even used matte ICC profiles on glossy paper as well as Epson's generic color profiles on specific Red River, Canson and Ilford Galerie papers. In every case the colors came out the same regardless of the ICC profile used. The only real difference was in the tone curves for a 21-step grayscale. Different profiles and media type selections had a visible and easily measured effect.

ICC profiles from: RR=Red River, Ep=Epson


Here you can see the result of using different ICC profiles on a specific paper where the horizontal scale goes from 0 (maximum white) to 100 (maximum black) and the vertical scale from 100 (paper white) to 0 (the maximum possible black on the paper). None of the profiles actually reach the absolute black limit of the measuring device. But the tone curves for each profile follow different paths even though they all seem to come very close together around middle gray.

Nevertheless, the colors produced for a specific image are all "accurate" to the viewer. Getting the shadows and highlights to work is up to us.

Strodav Loc: Houston, Tx

Sorry, my experience is different. I’ve had poorly made profiles produce prints on my Canon Pro-1000 that did not match my calibrated Adobe rgb monitor. The colors were fairly accurate with a bit of a color cast towards yellow and the colors were muted, not as vibrant as they should have been. This was with Red River papers. I view my prints off to one side of my monitor under a K5500 light where the light source does not impact my monitor and my ambient room light is dimmed. Try this. Make 2 prints of an image with deep and varied color and texture on an Adobe rgb printer, one print made with an srgb profile and one made for the Adobe rgb color space matching the printer. After the prints are thoroughly dry, look at them side by side under K5500 light. If you do it right, you will see a significant difference.