bob fleer Loc: Annapolis, MD

have had a canon 70D since they were advertised. I like the camera but want to upgrade to a mirrorless canon without breaking the bank.
nature, landscape, birds and architectural are my interests.
Any thoughts would be helpful.

BebuLamar

I wonder what would break the bank? Each person bank account is different.

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

You have an advanced-tier 24MP wonder of modern digital photography based on a 1.6x crop-factor sensor. Your post did not inventory your existing lenses, where this might be the deciding factor.

Two new cropped EOS mirrorless bodies have been announced: the EOS R7 and R10. Both would be in the 'family' of the EOS XXD line of cameras, the R7 following the 7DII/90D, and the R10 following more closely the 80D.

Alas, one of the distinguishing features of mirrorless cameras, IBIS - In-Body Image Stabilization - is missing from the R10. So, the R10 could provide a host of mirrorless features, but no change in the 24MP pixel resolution and no change in how your non IS-enabled lenses perform. There's not yet a logical MILC upgrade from a still very current 70D to a mirrorless EOS body that maintains your EF-S lenses.

rmorrison1116 Loc: Near Valley Forge, Pennsylvania

I've been "collecting" digital cameras since 2001, and I have all the Canon XXD models in my collection. I actually still use my 70, 80, and 90D cameras fairly regularly. The 90D is a really nice camera, and uses any EF-S lens you have, sans adapter.
I've been waiting for the MILC technology to mature, and indeed it has. My next crop sensor camera will be the EOS R7. It's a bit more expensive than the R10, but it's not really all that expensive, quite reasonable infact if you ask me, and quite worth the cost.
My next APS-C sensor camera, which I plan on getting soon, will be a Canon EOS R7. It's definitely worth the extra cost over the R10, in my opinion, and will be a useful addition to my collection. I plan on getting some RF glass and an adapter so I can still use my good EF glass on it.

PHRubin Loc: Nashville TN USA

As the other Paul indicated, the R7 is the latest and greatest of Canon's APS-C bodies and I've ordered one to replace my 80D. Since it has the R mount instead of the EF mount, an adapter is needed for any EF or EF-S lens.

However, in my case it is a case of want, not need. My 80D is a wonderful camera.

ELNikkor

Unless you go to FF mirrorless with IBIS, you will not be making enough of a change to merit the change.

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

Why do you feel you need to "upgrade"?
--Bob

imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida

R10 - when you can find one ......

Picture Taker Loc: Michigan Thumb

Reread "CHG CANON" he has the best info for you.

User ID

True but if they cant afford the $1100 for an R10 and EF adapter then they are just not in the game. All other "R" models are significantly more money, so youre down to three clear cut (non-"M") choices:

• buy nothing
• R10
• "bank breaker"(?) models

The OP will obviously know which choice matches the bank account. Theres really nothing complicated here.

rmorrison1116 Loc: Near Valley Forge, Pennsylvania

He never said anything about needing to upgrade. Like many of us, it's a want, not a need. If people want a new camera, and can afford a new camera, then they should get a new camera.

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

You don't say why you want the upgrade, but...

Canon R7 ($1499 body only) would be the most logical upgrade. Tons of new features and a fantastic AF system for birds and other active subjects. APS-C same as your 70D, so lenses would act the same.... Any and all Canon EF or EF-S lenses you have can be adapted to use on the R7... and will probably work better than they did on the 70D. The R7 is 32.5MP, versus the 20MP you have now. R7 can use the same batteries and memory cards you have now, though you may want to buy some of the newer, higher capacity LP-E6NH and invest in faster SD cards to get the best out of the camera. So far there are only two RF-S lenses... an 18-150mm is the normal "kit" lens offered with the R7, adding $400 to the cost (that lens will sell for $500 separately).

Canon R10 ($979 body only) is more of an entry-level camera. Think of it as a mirrorless Rebel SL3 (aka 250D). While it appears to have the same advanced AF system as the R7, there are a lot of other differences. The R10 has a more modest 24MP sensor (still an increase from the 20MP you have now). The R7 has IBIS, the R10 doesn't. The R7 has dual memory card slots, the R10 only has one. The R10 uses a smaller LP-E17 battery. An additional $120 will buy the R10 with an RF-S 18-55mm kit lens, or for an additional $400 it can be bought in kit with the RF-S 18-150mm. But, like the R7 you can adapt EF and EF-S lenses to use upon it. Note that 3rd party lenses may or may not work properly if adapted. Most do fine and recent ones that aren't compatible may be fixable by their manufacturer. But, unlike Canon EF and EF-S lenses, there are no guarantees that 3rd party lenses in EF mount will be fully compatible.

Both cameras offer much faster frame rate than your 70D's 7 frames/sec top speed. Mechanical shutter in both can shoot at 15 fps! That will be handy with active critters like birds. They also can do "pre-shots", where they actually capture a few images before you pressed the shutter release, in case you're a little slow. Again, that will be useful for birding! (They also have electronic shutter that can shoot even more fps, but due to rolling shutter effect may not be usable with moving subjects. The e-shutter can shoot silently and has extra fast shutter speeds that might be useful at times.)

I mention the AF system in both cameras above. It's said to be quite similar to the one in the top-of-the-line, full frame, pro-oriented 24MP R3 ($6000, body only)... which itself is a bit of a step up from the slightly older 20MP R6 ($2500, body only) and 45MP R5 ($3900, body only) full frame cameras. One thing the R3 has that none of the other cameras do is "Eye Control" focus. This is the first reappearance of that feature since the 1990s when it was put in the EOS-3 and a few other film cameras. (Never worked well for me... but some other people really liked it.)

R7 and R10 info at B&H Photo:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/compare/Canon_EOS_R7_Mirrorless_Camera_vs_Canon_EOS_R7_Mirrorless_Camera_with_18-150mm_Lens_vs_Canon_EOS_R10_Mirrorless_Camera_vs_Canon_EOS_R10_Mirrorless_Camera_with_18-150mm_Lens/BHitems/1707911-REG_1708099-REG_1707912-REG_1708098-REG

Compare Canon R7 to Canon 70D:

https://cameradecision.com/compare/Canon-EOS-R7-vs-Canon-EOS-70D

The-Digital-Picture previews of the R7 & R10:

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-R7.aspx
https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-R10.aspx

You'll find lots of online previews... not "reviews" because very few people have even handled these cameras yet, and even those who have only got to check out pre-production copies for a short time. There are video commentaries on YouTube and elsewhere. Be warned, like any new camera there are those who trash them without ever actually using them. Of course, there are also people who praise them, maybe a little too much!

Some of the whiners complain that there are only two RF-S lenses so far. However, they're overlooking not only adapting EF/EF-S (more than 125 million of them). They also are ignoring that all full frame capable RF lenses also can be used on the cameras, and there are about 30 of those... including some fairly affordable RF lenses: 16mm, 24-240mm, 35mm f/1.8, 50mm f/1.8, 85mm f/2 Macro, 100-400mm, 600mm f/11 and 800mm f/11. There are also the first few 3rd party autofocus lenses (two Yongnuo and one Viltrox). I'm sure we'll see more in the future. There are also a LOT of low cost, manual focus/manual aperture lenses from various 3rd party makers offered in RF mount.

Just looking at autofocus lenses in RF mount...

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/Mirrorless-Camera-Lenses/ci/17912/N/4196380428?filters=fct_a_focus-type_5738%3Aautofocus%2Cfct_lens-mount_3442%3Acanon-rf

Some have expressed concerns about image quality... while there isn't even any way to convert an R7 RAW file yet! So judge for yourself. The R7 sensor is very similar to the 90D's and M6 Mark II's. Look for images from either of those cameras and reviews of their image quality performance. The same can be said of the R10, compared to T8i/850D and M50 Mark II. Unless Canon really screws up, we can expect the same or better from the new R7 and R10.

In spite of its name, personally I don't think the R7 is a mirrorless replacement for the 7D Mark II (which I've been using for over six years). The new R7 is more of a mirrorless 90D, in my opinion. Yes there certainly will be some things the R7 does better than either of those DSLRs. But to keep the price reasonable Canon left a few features out of the R7 that I would really like to have seen, expected to see on a more pro-oriented model like 7DII, even if it had meant a higher price. FYI, eight years ago when it was introduced a 7D Mark II body sold for $300 more than the R7 will cost! The nearly three year old 90D costs $300 less. In fact, Canon also tried to tell us the 90D was replacing the 7DII. But while it was a solid upgrade from the 80D, in quite a few respects the 90D was a downgrade from the 7DII.

All that said, the R7 appears to be a very impressive camera for the money. I predict Canon will sell a ton of them! Research it and consider stretching your budget a bit if necessary to get one.

And, of course, there is the R10 if you just can't justify the cost of the R7.

In order to use your existing EF and/or EF-S lenses on the mirrorless you will need an adapter. Those are widely available and cost $45 to $400, depending upon the included features. (Note: ignore the even cheaper ones listed at the link below. They don't have the electronic contacts to support AF, aperture control and in-lens IS!)

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/Lens-Adapters/ci/3420/N/4077634486?filters=fct_accelerator-booster-turbo-hidden_6898%3Ano%2Cfct_camera-body-mount_1595%3Acanon-eos-rf%2Cfct_lens-mount_1596%3Acanon-ef-eos

R7, R10 and the two RF-S lenses are not in stores yet. The first R7 are expected within the next week or two. The R10 is expected to start shipping in late July. Pre-orders might make it hard to get hold of them for a while, though.



That's BS. There are some advantages to APS-C (especially for birds and wildlife) and the R7 with 32.5MP has higher resolution than a lot of full frame cameras (for landscape and architecture). No camera is perfect, but for mixed purposes like the original poster's, an R7 seems a really good compromise and it will be a significant upgrade from a 70D.



First, the 70D is a 20MP camera, not 24MP.

Second, I don't know how you could possibly get more logical than the R10 or R7, both of which will work great with Canon EF-S lenses via an inexpensive adapter. Either of those R-series would offer much, much better AF system for birds and wildlife... while the R7 in particular has the resolution that can be valuable for landscapes and architecture.

I'm not saying the old 70D isn't still a capable camera. But if the original poster wants mirrorless for the advantages they offer (which you often cite, Paul) and has the budget for one of these cameras, well they might want to get their pre-order placed because it will probably be a while till the camera gets shipped out to them!

SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA

I guess you’re making that judgment based on your own criteria. The OP’s might be vastly different. Just the fact that he wants a new camera may be reason enough for him.

DEBJENROB Loc: DELRAY BEACH FL

Sony A7R IVA

DEBJENROB Loc: DELRAY BEACH FL

Well said .... at a certain age, want supersedes need ... as Tina Turner sang ... what's need have to do with it ...