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Say 'cheese!!!' Why?
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Mar 8, 2022 09:51:08   #
St.Mary's
 
Once read that people smiling for photographs only began with the advent of motion pictures around the 1920s, when actors and actresses smiled on the big screen. Some reason to believe that as one looks at 100 plus year old photos of people.

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Mar 8, 2022 10:18:39   #
Fotoartist Loc: Detroit, Michigan
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
I like cheeses. to eat-Emmenthal is my favourite, but in all my years is photography, especially portraiture, I have never asked anyone to say "cheese"!

Saying that word may shape the mouth in what passes for a smile but a real smile or laugh involves all the facial musculature and of course the eyes. When folks force a smile they end up looking like a Jack-o'lantern!

All portraits need not be smiley- there are many other facial expressions. If you need someone to smile, have a good conversation with, tell them a joke, have them tell you about themselves of the family, ther job, or their cat or whatever. Treat your subjects with kindness, and interest, they will relax and react accordingly. Little kids reach to playing, funny faces, and funny conversations too! I once had an advertising agent send me a grouchy executive for a portrait session. The concept was to make the guy seem more personable and amicable in the annual report, etc. This guy did not want to be photographed all together, let alone smile. As soon as he sat in front of the camera all I said was, "if you smile we can both get the hell out of here and go to lunch"! He actually and sincerely smiled from the ear to ear- I guess he was hungry. I made 4 shots after which he insists that we both have lunch at his favourite restaurant at his expense. The best steak I ever ate and no cheese on the menu!

Some folks are happy but they don't want to smile for a portrait. Perhaps they have a dental issue or an asymmetrical smile. I tell them not to worry because I have a way of fixing those things, at least in their portrait.

Anyway, I have an advantage over y'all- folks look at my face and begin to laugh rather spontaneously and automatically, I just need to be quick on the shutter!
I like cheeses. to eat-Emmenthal is my favourite, ... (show quote)


Your way sounds good to me. Also, Larrypage who said, lick the lips and drop the jaw a bit. Also, saying, "Bee" turns up the corners of the mouth better than "cheese".

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Mar 8, 2022 10:24:51   #
Fotoartist Loc: Detroit, Michigan
 
StanMac wrote:
That is of course your opinion. Most of humanity disagrees with you.


Stan


Count me in your group.

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Mar 8, 2022 10:26:42   #
TonyBot
 
My two go-to "say cheese" comments are either: "say WORMS" (which gets a lot of raised eyebrows and small chuckles), or the one that gets the most *real* smiles is "say BIG BOOBS".

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Mar 8, 2022 11:21:03   #
mikegreenwald Loc: Illinois
 
Ed is right - a friendly conversation leads the subject to relax and enjoy the session. Most successful portraitists I've known have had the gift of gab - they talk while working, and keep their subject engaged.
For myself, I'm a truly lousy portraitist, but when forced into the situation, I give it a try. When all else fails, I usually get a relaxed and pleasant expression by saying " look MAD!"

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Mar 8, 2022 11:26:08   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
I have this sense that human smiling has become a part of the concept of social IQ.

I've read that social IQ in the workplace lubricates human interaction with the result that the person smiling advances more readily than those individuals who smile less.

I've also read that our genetic makeup determines the physical quality of our smile.

This a big subject. I offer my 2 cents.
Rongnongno wrote:
You folks, with a few exceptions, think a smile is always plastering in people's face.

Reality and observation says otherwise. As so-called photographers, you should be in a privileged position to see it.

If folks were smiling all the time, there would be no need for calling onto a French 'dubious olfactory delicacy' in order to take a fake picture of so-called happiness. Don't get me wrong, the French have their own 'catchphrase' to capture the same lie.

Now, folks think I bring this type of comment because I am not 'happy'. Far from it. I just have the luck of seeing things differently. I have an incredible, happy life. My wife and I share laughter. In between, we do not smile either.

My comment is really a question... Why are we trying - as photographer - to make folks look like different from what they are usually are?

Another observation that will upset many - again -... Smiling is not attractive but for very few.
You folks, with a few exceptions, think a smile is... (show quote)

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Mar 8, 2022 12:04:50   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
At the end of the day, we are photographing PEOPLE! Obviously, not all people are the same and each person will react differently to various stimuli. What may be funny, amusing or appropriate for one person may seem silly, vulgar, inappropriate or downright stupid to another person. The is no "one size fits all" solution in human relations.

It all boils down to your PEOPLE skills. A good portrait, wedding, event, public relations, and/or theatrical photograher can adapt quickly to various people, personalities and circumstances.

If there is any rule of thumb that applies to most folks it is that most people will relax and respond well to kindness, professionalism, a friendly attitude and good conversation. Some folks love to have the picture taken, some would rather visit their dentist and there is everything in between.

After many years of wedding photography, I have learned how to enlist peoples' cooperation under somewhat nervous or oftentimes semi-chaotic circumstances. It's a skill to direct folks without seeming to boss them around. Executive or corporate portraiture can be challenging as well. Someof the "big bosses" want to look serious in the images. Problem is, the PR department and ad agency want them to look "approachable" in their publicity and annual report photographs. The PR folks profess that folks and investors don't like "dictators"! So, I make sure I capture a wide variety of expressions, submit the "proofs" and let the bosses and the PR folks fight it out amongst themselves- oftentimes the smiles win. Sometimes more stern shots end up in the annual report but the "nice guy" shot is for the family! Nowadays the formal and typical 'executive" image has to give way to a more casual "shirtsleeves" kinda look. It all depends on the image they decide to project.

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Mar 8, 2022 12:38:45   #
Fotoartist Loc: Detroit, Michigan
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
At the end of the day, we are photographing PEOPLE! Obviously, not all people are the same and each person will react differently to various stimuli. What may be funny, amusing or appropriate for one person may seem silly, vulgar, inappropriate or downright stupid to another person. The is no "one size fits all" solution in human relations.

It all boils down to your PEOPLE skills. A good portrait, wedding, event, public relations, and/or theatrical photograher can adapt quickly to various people, personalities and circumstances.

If there is any rule of thumb that applies to most folks it is that most people will relax and respond well to kindness, professionalism, a friendly attitude and good conversation. Some folks love to have the picture taken, some would rather visit their dentist and there is everything in between.

After many years of wedding photography, I have learned how to enlist peoples' cooperation under somewhat nervous or oftentimes semi-chaotic circumstances. It's a skill to direct folks without seeming to boss them around. Executive or corporate portraiture can be challenging as well. Someof the "big bosses" want to look serious in the images. Problem is, the PR department and ad agency want them to look "approachable" in their publicity and annual report photographs. The PR folks profess that folks and investors don't like "dictators"! So, I make sure I capture a wide variety of expressions, submit the "proofs" and let the bosses and the PR folks fight it out amongst themselves- oftentimes the smiles win. Sometimes more stern shots end up in the annual report but the "nice guy" shot is for the family! Nowadays the formal and typical 'executive" image has to give way to a more casual "shirtsleeves" kinda look. It all depends on the image they decide to project.
At the end of the day, we are photographing PEOPLE... (show quote)


Wisdom from experience.

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Mar 8, 2022 12:47:52   #
JohnR Loc: The Gates of Hell
 
[quote=Rongnongno]In natural state we as human rarely smile or even laugh.

Say cheese Not my photo but my Granddaughter and Great Grandson - don't you just love those smiles. Cheers JohnR


(Download)

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Mar 8, 2022 12:58:18   #
Rongnongno Loc: FL
 
[quote=JohnR]
Rongnongno wrote:
In natural state we as human rarely smile or even laugh.

Say cheese Not my photo but my Granddaughter and Great Grandson - don't you just love those smiles. Cheers JohnR

You want an honest answer or one that flatters your perception?

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Mar 8, 2022 13:01:38   #
JohnR Loc: The Gates of Hell
 
Rongnongno wrote:
You want an honest answer or one that flatters your perception?


Sad

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Mar 8, 2022 13:08:08   #
Horseart Loc: Alabama
 
I ask them to say "Money" and stretch it to "monnnnnn-neeeeey" It causes them to smile naturally (slightly) at the mere mention of the word and gives you time to catch the smile in both syllables.

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Mar 8, 2022 13:17:23   #
User ID
 
Rongnongno wrote:
In natural state we as human rarely smile or even laugh. A 'forced smiling portrait' is not representative of anything.

You just answered your own question.

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Mar 8, 2022 13:24:53   #
Horseart Loc: Alabama
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
I like cheeses. to eat-Emmenthal is my favourite, but in all my years is photography, especially portraiture, I have never asked anyone to say "cheese"!

Saying that word may shape the mouth in what passes for a smile but a real smile or laugh involves all the facial musculature and of course the eyes. When folks force a smile they end up looking like a Jack-o'lantern!

All portraits need not be smiley- there are many other facial expressions. If you need someone to smile, have a good conversation with, tell them a joke, have them tell you about themselves of the family, ther job, or their cat or whatever. Treat your subjects with kindness, and interest, they will relax and react accordingly. Little kids reach to playing, funny faces, and funny conversations too! I once had an advertising agent send me a grouchy executive for a portrait session. The concept was to make the guy seem more personable and amicable in the annual report, etc. This guy did not want to be photographed all together, let alone smile. As soon as he sat in front of the camera all I said was, "if you smile we can both get the hell out of here and go to lunch"! He actually and sincerely smiled from the ear to ear- I guess he was hungry. I made 4 shots after which he insists that we both have lunch at his favourite restaurant at his expense. The best steak I ever ate and no cheese on the menu!

Some folks are happy but they don't want to smile for a portrait. Perhaps they have a dental issue or an asymmetrical smile. I tell them not to worry because I have a way of fixing those things, at least in their portrait.

Anyway, I have an advantage over y'all- folks look at my face and begin to laugh rather spontaneously and automatically, I just need to be quick on the shutter!
I like cheeses. to eat-Emmenthal is my favourite, ... (show quote)


My favorite is smoked Gouda, but back to smiles. I'm sure it takes you no time to get the look that you know will be most flattering to your subjects, but I'm betting that if people laugh when they see you, it's only because you give them a happy, comfortable feeling and they know they are about to deal with a master photographer! I'll never be a good photographer but knowing that will never stop me from trying! Thank you for all the info you give us here.

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Mar 8, 2022 13:31:46   #
Rongnongno Loc: FL
 
JohnR wrote:
Sad

No, an honest answer to a post that is nothing more than trolling by offering something that no one in his/her right mind would try to answer negatively.

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