Nikon Z6ii for low light action photography? (Page 2): Thank you for the example. I downloaded just the first image. It seems this file has been processed by some Apple software...

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

Chicago312 wrote:

No slandering. I actually like the Z6 - mostly use it for video and static photos, but thought I would try it out for sports. Not to say that the DSLR is perfect - it's not. But it does seem better for low light action/sports. Just wondering if the newer Z6ii would be worth it or wait for the Z9.

Thank you for the example. I downloaded just the first image. It seems this file has been processed by some Apple software, because the focus information from the camera has been lost and the file now exhibits a 'JPEG' extension. That first image looks like the player in white is in better focus than the player with the ball. But, the AF information is missing as needed to support any detailed analysis.

Do you have an original 'jpg' from the camera and / or a jpg version output from Capture NX-D?

Chicago312 Loc: Western suburb, Chicago

CHG_CANON wrote:

Thank you for the example. I downloaded just the f... (show quote)

Yes, I use Apple’s photo for processing. I no longer have the original from camera as this was shot a couple weeks ago and I have since reformatted the XQD card. I will try to shoot another event (wrestling) tomorrow evening with the Z6 and see if I can’t upload from the camera (I don’t have Capture NX-D) though I’m not sure how to do that. I’ll try to figure it out. It sounds to me like you’re saying that Apple destroys/hides some of the file info.

JD750 Loc: SoCal

Chicago312 wrote:

Yes, I use Apple’s photo for processing. I no longer have the original from camera as this was shot a couple weeks ago and I have since reformatted the XQD card. I will try to shoot another event (wrestling) tomorrow evening with the Z6 and see if I can’t upload from the camera (I don’t have Capture NX-D) though I’m not sure how to do that. I’ll try to figure it out. It sounds to me like you’re saying that Apple destroys/hides some of the file info.

If you used Photos the original should still be there, Photos is non-destructive. However it hides the images unless you have specified otherwise. You can find the originals but it's a PIA. To do that, go to Pictures, select the Photos_Library icon, Right-Click and select "Show Package Contents". See attached screenshots. Then you can poke around in Originals, looking for the photo of interest. CAUTION: DO NOT MOVE OR DELETE FROM THIS FOLDER. If you find the image you want, copy it (CTRL-C) and paste it (CTRL-V) to somewhere else such as your downloads folder.

Also the process for getting images off of the XQD card is similar to how you upload to Photos. Same process for saving to a file except you don't use Photos. Try inserting the XQD card then quit Photos. Open Image Capture. If you haven't use Image Capture, it is in you Applications folder. Using Image Capture You can select and save images to any location then view them using the finder.

Hope that helps.

(Download)

Chicago312 Loc: Western suburb, Chicago

JD750 wrote:

If you used Photos the original should still be th... (show quote)

Thank you! I will give it a try. I’m not much of a computer person (obviously).

JD750 Loc: SoCal

Chicago312 wrote:

Thank you! I will give it a try. I’m not much of a computer person (obviously).

You're welcome.

Chicago312 Loc: Western suburb, Chicago

CHG_CANON wrote:

Thank you for the example. I downloaded just the f... (show quote)

Hope I did this right - straight from the QXD card. Didn't go through the Apple Photos app. These are some of the photos where the camera (or the operator) missed focus.

Of note, I did some more reading and research on the Z6 autofocus and made some adjustments - using the face/eye detection with wide area AF (L) - the keeper rate was much higher this time around. Previously, I was using dynamic-area AF and wide area AF (S) and had a lower keeper rate (for low light sports).

I have seen a few videos on YT where the discussion on AF essentially stated that Canon and Sony AF were better than Nikon's. Any advice on improving focus would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks and happy holidays

(Download)

Grahame Loc: Fiji

Chicago312 wrote:

Hope I did this right - straight from the QXD card... (show quote)

Stephen, from the three images posted only the last shows the full Exif and 'focus point', not sure why.

The Wide-area AF (S) and AF (L) area modes work the same as 'Single-Point AF', they are simply a larger 'point'. You can see in your image below that it has worked correctly and focused at the nearest part of the 'focus area'. Due to this being shot at f/2.8 there is insufficient DoF for the faces to be in sharp focus as the arm is.

Single-point AF would have likely been your best bet here. The 'Subject'/'Face'/'Eye' detect modes only work in Auto-area AF.

With regard to the Z6 in lower light and it's AF performance it may not be the best on the market but it should handle the examples you have shown.

Edit : I downloaded the other two images again and the Exif and Focus Point are now showing in VieNX. Those two images show the focus box over areas that are clearly OOF. If I recall correctly, focus point indication in ViewNX does not mean that the camera actually hit focus in that area. Is your camera set to shoot only when 'focus' is confirmed or not?

(Download)

chasgroh Loc: Buena Park, CA

Chicago312 wrote:

Hope I did this right - straight from the QXD card... (show quote)

...try "auto area" with the "subject tracking" actuated from one of your fn buttons (I use the lowest one). Auto area scared me, at first, then I got used to using the subject tracking (which will toggle with the fn button push) and was pleasently surprised by the results. Even though it's kinda clunky, it's really-really good. See, it's not auto area working by itself, which is a dice shoot, but in conjunction with the subject tracking box...it's a system.

Grahame Loc: Fiji

chasgroh wrote:

...try "auto area" with the "subject tracking" actuated from one of your fn buttons (I use the lowest one). Auto area scared me, at first, then I got used to using the subject tracking (which will toggle with the fn button push) and was pleasently surprised by the results. Even though it's kinda clunky, it's really-really good. See, it's not auto area working by itself, which is a dice shoot, but in conjunction with the subject tracking box...it's a system.

I've used the subject and face tracking on the Z6 with very good results when tracking runners coming towards me but wonder how well it would cope with arms and legs often getting in the way?

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

This might be the best it is? Or maybe, the interaction of mirrorless technology and a human can still be improved? Consider using a smaller AF area and see if the camera does better with you getting that smaller AF on target just as done for these two grapplers.

(Download)

chasgroh Loc: Buena Park, CA

Grahame wrote:

I've used the subject and face tracking on the Z6 with very good results when tracking runners coming towards me but wonder how well it would cope with arms and legs often getting in the way?

...well, try it out! I have *no* complaints and I shoot sports often. Of course, I'm using the Z6II with "better" focus tech.

Chicago312 Loc: Western suburb, Chicago

Grahame wrote:

Stephen, from the three images posted only the las... (show quote)

Grahame,
I was shooting in AF-C mode - that's the AF mode I typically use for sports or action. I have not tried AF-S, though I've heard that some pros will do that.
I was reading Steve Perry's e-book on Nikon's mirrorless camera autofocus systems. He states that AF-C is by default set to release priority whereas AF-S would be focus confirmed.
Perhaps that is part of the reason for missing focus. I agree that that single point AF would have been ideal, but with the wrestlers moving around all over the place, and me swinging a 300mm f2.8 back and forth, it would have been difficult to lock in.
Stephen

Chicago312 Loc: Western suburb, Chicago

chasgroh wrote:

...try "auto area" with the "subject tracking" actuated from one of your fn buttons (I use the lowest one). Auto area scared me, at first, then I got used to using the subject tracking (which will toggle with the fn button push) and was pleasently surprised by the results. Even though it's kinda clunky, it's really-really good. See, it's not auto area working by itself, which is a dice shoot, but in conjunction with the subject tracking box...it's a system.

Charlie,
Thanks, I will try that next time. I heard/saw somewhere that the subject tracking was a bit of a challenge to use with sports, action/wildlife, but I will give a shot.
Stephen

Chicago312 Loc: Western suburb, Chicago

CHG_CANON wrote:

This might be the best it is? Or maybe, the interaction of mirrorless technology and a human can still be improved? Consider using a smaller AF area and see if the camera does better with you getting that smaller AF on target just as done for these two grapplers.

I think it may be an issue with both technology and human imperfection. I was using the wide area (L) because I read somewhere that the camera would be able to utilize face/eye detection. I did get a much higher keeper rate with the Z6 this time (than my D810 DSLR) using wide area (L) instead of wide area (S).
I was also shooting in AF-C mode. Steve Perry states in his book that the AF-C mode is release priority, as opposed to AF-S mode which is focus priority. Perhaps that contributes to the missed focus?
Also, I was shooting a 300mm f2.8 on a monopod sitting - not exactly rock steady - perhaps that also contributed to the missed shots?

Grahame Loc: Fiji

Chicago312 wrote:

Grahame,
I was shooting in AF-C mode - that's the AF mode I typically use for sports or action. I have not tried AF-S, though I've heard that some pros will do that.

Same as me. I've never tried AF-S for moving subjects, but gather some do.

Chicago312 wrote:

I was reading Steve Perry's e-book on Nikon's mirrorless camera autofocus systems. He states that AF-C is by default set to release priority whereas AF-S would be focus confirmed.

With respect to my Z6 I have AF-C set at the default 'Release priority'. Strangely, in AF-S although set to default 'Focus Priority' it still takes a shot when well out of focus as opposed to my D800 which does what it should.