a6k Loc: Detroit & Sanibel

This is a straight comparison from a raw file using Pixelmator Pro on a Mac. Each file was saved at original size and maximum quality. The JPG uses P3 color profile.

For those of you who are HEIC challenged, I've included a side x side screen shot. This was not 4K but half-4K.

The space savings are again non-trivial. But now I also see an image quality difference. The HEIC is on the left. Look at the white chest hairs on the black cat. There are other subtle differences, but that one is easy to see.

The only thing that I did with the editor is slight cropping. There were no adjustments made to any other aspects of this shot so it is very nearly SOOC.

The HEIC can be downloaded but does not show up here (as before). I hope that a few of UHH readers will find this helpful.

HEIC seems, here, to produce a better picture. However, it's not yet good for the web and I don't know of any commercial printers who can use it. It's a pity that a smaller file with better quality is not yet of much use. Just my observation based on a very tiny sample size with many variables not really tested.

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gvarner Loc: Central Oregon Coast

The HEIC format is peculiar to Apple devices, not really for general use like JPEG and other common formats. I have my iPhone set to convert them to JPEG when I upload them to my PC. You can also use an app like Pro Camera that lets your iPhone create RAW photos.

a6k Loc: Detroit & Sanibel

While Apple has been an early adopter, the HEIC/HEIF format is not "peculiar to Apple devices". It's a recent industry standard. I pointed that out in my earlier thread. I also pointed out that while some iPhone/iPad apps do shoot raw (not RAW), the older ones are less capable. The raw photo in this thread is from a Sony RX10iv, not an Apple device. The HEIC and JPG exports were from Pixelmator Pro, an editor that runs on Mac (an Apple "device").

CaptureOne has begun to use HEIC:
https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/articles/360016552258-HEIF-HEIC-file-format
It runs on both Mac and Windows.

FYIO

gvarner Loc: Central Oregon Coast

I stand corrected.

bsprague Loc: Lacey, WA, USA

The related video side is called "HEVC" and that uses the H.265 codec. Except for Apple, adoption as a standard has been slow. The suggestion is often that licensing costs and complications are the cause of the slow adoption rate. Another part of the problem is that the coding and decoding are more computer intensive. In other words, it takes more computer power to edit the HEVC/H.265 video.

If you are in an Apple world (iPhone, iPad, iMac), HEIC/HEIF/HEVC makes good sense because the smaller files transfer more quickly and Apple's software/hardware systems are tuned to work with it.

For me, in an Android/Windows world, photography and videography workflows are smoother by sticking with RAWs, JPEGs and MP4s with the H.264 codec.

azted Loc: Las Vegas, NV.

This is now interesting to me because I am an Apple person. But my images are mostly Sony. How would I convert my raw images and why would I do it?

a6k Loc: Detroit & Sanibel

The image in this thread was originally a Sony raw (.arw) file. You would not "convert" your raw files. The HEIC format is an alternative to JPG when you export your final product. I hate to say it but unless your primary use is viewing on a monitor driven by a Mac or on an iPad then it's not worth it.

Raw vs. HEIC is not a valid choice with most cameras and not with any Sony, so far, that I know of. It's JPG vs HEIC that you are choosing, after you have processed your raw file.

As for how, I suggest Pixelmator Pro which is very reasonably priced and, for me at least, very easy to use. It's Mac-only as far as I know. There may be others now and there will probably be more others later. I don't think it does it now, but DarkTable is one to watch. It runs on Mac, Windows and Linux.

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

Adobe supports HEIC in all their modern / current products, depending on the underlying OS your system operations.

https://helpx.adobe.com/fi/lightroom-cc/kb/heic-files-support.html

a6k Loc: Detroit & Sanibel

I may be mis-remembering a very recent post. Wasn't there an issue with LR on Windows until a helper piece of software was added to the base OS? I'm not a LR user so I'm only asking for everyone who might be.

Of course, the poster's question was about Apple and Apple does not need additional SW.

This was the post I was remembering.
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-721524-1.html#12766379

lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA

I am happy with 16-bit TIFFs. I will probably be long dead before any new standard replaces JPG / JPEG for general use.

a6k Loc: Detroit & Sanibel

I agree with you that a 16 bit TIFF is a much more capable image file. That is inherently true if we are comparing 16 bits to 8 bits. I do know that it's hard to find a commercial printer that will work from one, though.

I haven't looked lately but I don't recall any of them willing to use HEIC.

But, just for clarity, HEIC appears to have been designed as an upgrade replacement for JPG/JPEG and it's really not a useful comparison. At least it's not IMO.

As for how long it will take to see a large shift to HEIC from JPG, you are likely correct but look how fast other things change in the world of computers. CD's and DVD's came and went in a flash (no pun intended). With Apple and Canon on board things could change. Apple devices take many pictures and are ubiquitous. Apple computers have no problem using them. Windows could add the necessary software easily. The major browsers could then come along. I'm not predicting that but in a highly competitive world, the leading companies might see a potential advantage. Another vector for a rapid change would be if Google/Android starting supporting HEIC in the non-Apple phones and tablets. Samsung alone could trigger that. If you combine alll the phone cameras from Apple and Samsung you suddenly own the market.

As for quality and features, HEIC can be up to 16 bit and since it is a container, it can bridge the gap between stills and video. Since so many of our cameras can already to 4K video I wonder if HEIC offers an advantage that is yet to be tapped.
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https://photographylife.com/definition/heif
This is a we'll written and pretty thorough article (August 2020) and it contains this very interesting information as well as much more..
OS Support

The following operating systems support HEIF content:

Android 9 Pie and newer
Apple iOS 11 and newer
Apple macOS High Sierra and newer
Microsoft Windows 10 April 2018 Update (1803) and newer
Note that while Microsoft provides support for HEIF files in Windows 10, you have to buy this extension for $0.99 in order to be able to software and hardware-decode HEVC-compressed content.
Post-Processing Application Support

The following post-processing software has built-in support to be able to read and edit HEIC images:

Adobe Lightroom CC 1.5 and newer
Adobe Lightroom Classic CC 7.5 and newer
Adobe Photoshop 21.2.1 and newer
Adobe Photoshop Elements 2020 and newer
Affinity Photo
GIMP 2.10.2 and newer
Pixelmator 3.7 and newer
Zoner Photo Studio X and newer
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I am puzzled by the author's assertion that Windows 10 can handle HEIF files (HEIC) natively. It did not on my wife's PC and it's a recent build and the OS is up to date. I don't know what I'm missing.

lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA

I obtained a free CODEC update for Windows 10 so it could directly view Raw files. That might be the issue, your wife's out of the box Windows system does not have that. I could always see the file icons and be able to open them from Windows via Ps but with the update you can view the thumb nail in the Windows File Manager. It might be related. Check the MS web site.

a6k Loc: Detroit & Sanibel

You are correct that I can already see the thumbnails in the file manager (including in OneDrive) but cannot open the full file. However, the MS Store wants 99 cents for the CODEC. What is your source for a free one?

Windows wants the software for opening the video form of the format even though the picture is not a video.

lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA

Got it years ago. I guess MS is greedier now. Odd they don't open. I can open any brand RAW that my old copy of ACR can. I am sure yours is newer. There are a few gurus on UHH for your problem but they are not me

a6k Loc: Detroit & Sanibel

Raw isn't the issue. HEIC is the issue. I do my post processing - from raw - on my Mac. My Mac has no problems with raw or HEIC.