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Color rendition by various camera manufacturers
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Nov 9, 2021 12:41:31   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Ysarex wrote:
Things are not nearly so chaotic as some responses would suggest. Yes, we don't know if we're all seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting, etc. the same thing in the same way. But we have time living together to explore and investigate those questions. ...
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I don't (and won't ever) question the reality or validity of colors I see in ANY image.
I view them as I perceive them.
Makes things,and life, much simpler.
Who cares if a color is a few nanometers off.
Oh, wait, ...

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Nov 9, 2021 12:57:57   #
rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA
 
When I look at a random straight-out-of-camera image posted on the internet, I honestly cannot tell what brand camera produced it.

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Nov 9, 2021 13:08:22   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
Fotoartist wrote:
I rely on Nikon. In terms of White Balance, 98% of the time I go with the color temperature as picked by Auto White balance in my Nikons. What does that tell you?


Even shooting raw I love what I get from Nikon. Those Nikon raw files are the easiest to process of anything I’ve worked with.

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Nov 9, 2021 13:09:41   #
drmike99 Loc: Fairfield Connecticut
 
Bridges wrote:
Back in film days it seemed that one film was best for certain shades. Nikon was know for the way it handled red, Fuji was a favorite for outdoors shots where blues and greens were predominate, Agfa was a favorite of a lot of portrait photographers…..



Nikon? What film did they make? Me thinks you intended to write Kodak perhaps?

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Nov 9, 2021 13:23:30   #
kenArchi Loc: Seal Beach, CA
 
My oly 10 default had a little bit of red/magenta cast. Made color adjustments to new default settings(jpeg).
The monitor view color matches what I see.
My Nikon raw is very accurate. Even with mixed lighting and flash.

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Nov 9, 2021 13:25:36   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
rook2c4 wrote:
When I look at a random straight-out-of-camera image posted on the internet, I honestly cannot tell what brand camera produced it.

Amazing how that works, eh?

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Nov 9, 2021 13:33:55   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
Longshadow wrote:
I don't (and won't ever) question the reality or validity of colors I see in ANY image.

You don't have to question the reality of colors you see anywhere. Do what you want. What you do however has no effect on the reality of the colors in images and some of us see differences and legitimately ask what causes them. For example the two photos below. They were brought to me by one of my students. They are from the same camera with no change to any of the camera settings. Exposure was set to auto and the group of two is exposed at 1/60 sec f/2.8 while the group of four is exposed at 1/70 sec f/2.8. Camera was set to auto-white balance. Taken less than 2 minutes apart. The lighting didn't change. They're in the same place, and the one couple is in both photos.

Most people would be happy with either photo if seen by itself and they wouldn't question what they saw. The reason my student brought me these as a problem is because she saw them together. She could see the color change between the two photos. Most people can. In fact I've yet to meet anyone who can't. When asked to describe the color difference between the two photos everyone get's it basically correct and says the one on the right is more red.

These photos date from 2012 and the camera auto-white balance algorithms have improved so we see less of this now, but it still happens. The color difference in the two photos is due to the camera's auto-white balance algorithm. The color difference is real and I for one, especially seeing both together, question the validity of both because they should be the same and they're not.
Longshadow wrote:
I view them as I perceive them.
Makes things,and life, much simpler.
Who cares if a color is a few nanometers off.
Oh, wait, ...


(Download)

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Nov 9, 2021 13:40:50   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Ysarex wrote:
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I do however, adjust the white balance if adjusting it makes the image more to my liking.
(The one on the right is warmer.)
And, you are comparing a color difference between two images. I look at an image individually and decide if I want to change it.

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Nov 9, 2021 13:50:58   #
Drbobcameraguy Loc: Eaton Ohio
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
"The best colour rendition" is subjective- some like it warm, some lie it cool and some lie it neutral. Aside from significant shifts and extreme biases, who is to tell? To what standards would you base your assessments? Neutral white and blacks, any particular muting or exaggeration of specific colours? There are also many variables such as exposure, colour temperature of the light sources, and more.

Surely there are differences from one camera's make and model to another as to colour rendition and various lenses may have unique colour responses of their own. Without having access to a wide variety of cameras and lenses and performing laboratory-grade tests on each wonder high controlled conditions with the use of precise instrumentation, again who could tell. Under practical and everyday shoot circumstances under a wide scope of conditions, it's all personal perception, taste. and artistic judgement as to the colour rendition's appropriateness to the scene or subject.

As others have alluded to in the film era,photograher selected transparency films, colour-wise, as to their "palette". Certain films had particular biases, could mute or exaggerate certain colours and other properties such as contrast and saturation were also considered. In a digital camera, you are confined to whatever the engineering of the sensor and system has to offer and the final disposition of colour balance, rendition saturation, brightness and contrast are tweaked, altered or perfected as the photographer's taste and perception in post-processing.

Colour-negative films also have certain biases and unique colour characteristics, but again, the final colour balance and rendition are finalized in printing.

Straight out of the camera? So, how do you view your images? Do you print or just enjoy them on a screen? Whatever tasks place from the time the image leaves the camera and goes to the screen or the printer also influences the colour rendition. Is everything perfectly calibrated? I am not a big fan of super-manipulative and complex post-processing, except for special effects, but I can not imagine how anyone who is critical about colour rendition can do with ANY post-processing. Sample post-processing gives the photographer full control over colour balance, contrast, saturation, contrast and brightness. Those are all the essential properties of colour rendition.

I have used a wide variety of cameras and lenses over the past nearly 60 years. I have found by practical experience, not by exhaustive testing, that most modern lenses, especially nowadays are high corrected for the aberrations that can affect colour rendition. I have used cameras made by Hasselblad, Canon, Nikon and a few others and have never found a colour rendition that I could not easily correct or customize. In the digital age, cameras and even cell-phone cameras are being improved, as to colour accuracy, by leaps and bounds seemingly on a monthly basis.

I don't like bragging, but when I ran an analog/chemical colour lab in my studio, I could see colour variations to a .005 filtration. I did custom printing for years and drove some of my technicians to drink!
"The best colour rendition" is subjectiv... (show quote)


Yes I'm sure you did drive some to drink. Hopefully it was a short drive and you then took their keys. Lol.

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Nov 9, 2021 14:50:07   #
Quixdraw Loc: x
 
I suppose it is just me, but one reason I am fascinated by the old D3 is the way it renders color. The second point, though I do little post work, is it is drop dead easy to adjust images with the simple software I use, even easier, and with better outcomes than my other Nikons.

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Nov 9, 2021 15:20:32   #
DICK32
 
I use Adobe color balance in Lightroom and tweak it if i don't like the result. You find a gray area in the picture and click on it. Most of the time there is something that is gray and it doesn't have to be a certain shade of gray to get you close. Or if you need it super accurate: I have a gray card in my camera bag. DON'T BUY ONE--GO TO A PAINT STORE AND GET ONE FREE. I look at the results of the color balance and adjust the color sliders from there. Most of the time it is close enough that I don't have to change it.

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Nov 9, 2021 15:34:38   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
Longshadow wrote:
I do however, adjust the white balance if adjusting it makes the image more to my liking.
(The one on the right is warmer.)
And, you are comparing a color difference between two images.

Or comparing color differences between an image and reality. For example the photos I just posted are of people. People have skin and people's skin comes in colors. Human skin color covers a range but that range has limits. We can determine how statistically likely it is for someone's skin color to naturally be __________. So for example in the photo I posted of two couples, odds are those young folks are dead or soon will be as their skin color suggests that they have stopped breathing. People turn blue when their oxygen supply is cut off and the skin color of those four (minus the one with heavy makeup) is magenta headed for blue.

Now an artist can of course make photos any color they want and given the latest zombie craze blue skin I guess is in vogue. But it's also a fact that living healthy people have normal skin color. It's possible for us to see that and measure that and control that in our photos, or not.
Longshadow wrote:
I look at an image individually and decide if I want to change it.

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Nov 9, 2021 16:32:00   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
DICK32 wrote:
if you need it super accurate: I have a gray card in my camera bag. DON'T BUY ONE--GO TO A PAINT STORE AND GET ONE FREE.

You can get a guaranteed neutral gray 4x5 Delta 1 card for $3 or 8x10 for $8.

You can find no fewer than two dozen versions of gray paint at any paint store including vessel gray, web gray, mindful gray, repose gray, intellectual gray... - none of them guaranteed to be neutral gray. Which gray did you pick?

There is probably an even wider selection of white paint colors.

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Nov 9, 2021 16:33:29   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
Gene51 wrote:
There are always differences between mfgrs, and even between models from any given mfgr. None are accurate ie true to life right out of the box. I use an Xrite ColorChecker Passport to build a profile for the camera when accuracy (color fidelity) is important. The process is based on the raw capture, and the result is color neutrality - regardless of camera brand or model. I have used it when employing a second shooter with a different camera from mine and I need to have the results look as if it were from a single camera when they are presented to the client.
There are always differences between mfgrs, and ev... (show quote)



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Nov 9, 2021 16:49:27   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Longshadow wrote:

Plus - Since everyone's eyes (and mind) perceive color differently, what IS reality???

A calibrated monitor you say? But what if my eyes don't see the "reality" the way the monitor displays it.
I wonder if anyone's 'calibrated monitor' looks funky to them.

And - Everyone intrinsically thinks that if they see a certain color a certain way, everyone else will see it that way also. Now think about two, three, four, five, plus colors in an image...
Possible, but highly improbable.
Just HOW different between people? We'll never know.
img src="https://static.uglyhedgehog.com/images/s... (show quote)


It's not important that we see colors differently, unless you are deficient in certain parts of the spectrum and your job involves color evaluation.

What IS important is that we have ICC standard monitor calibration, so that we evaluate color from the same *relative* frame of reference. You might adjust your images with more warmth than I would, but they're YOUR images, and I can only assume you used a calibrated, profiled monitor when adjusting them. At least, that's the assumption of most labs if you order "machine prints" or "no color adjustment" be done to your files. I calibrate my monitors monthly, and my prints are a very close match to them.

A key point of color management is to get printers and monitors to match closely, so the color you see on your monitor is the color that comes from the lab (within reason... It's never perfect). But it's also nice to see the color with a standard frame of reference to what another photographer or designer intended you to see... However you see color.

In the portrait lab where I worked, we tested folks' color vision when they applied to work in Color Correction. We calibrated/profiled all nine identical monitors to the same numerical aim points. We calibrated/profiled all 40 printers to match closely, as well. The result was that any of our color correctors could adjust a job and send it to any printer, with results that were within our tolerance standards.

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