Bill 45

With all the talk and writing about the Taliban win in Afghanistan. One thing people have not look at. Afghans do not like foreign troops in their country. You would like foreign troops running all over the place here in America? Add to that their are here for 20 years. You would not like it one bit, how you known how the Afghans feel about it. Taliban told people their were going to kick out the America's army in their home land and their did it. Point I trying make is that people not like foreign troops in their home land.

dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho

You and they are forgetting, if not for 9-11, Americans would not have set foot in the Middle East to the degree we were there.

They attacked America, we did not attack them. How do you forget that attack, that day? I won’t. They are lucky we did Yule their ass.

You know the old saying, don’t start nothin, won’t be nothin.

Dennis

Bill 45

I see my posting was over your head. One more time: People do not like having foreign troops in their homeland. People will anything to get those troop out. That is fact, look to history for your example. Who are "they" on 9/11.
Afghanistan's Government ? Taliban? Who?

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

Taliban was the Afghan government back in 2001

dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho

Believe me Bill, you have never posted over anyone’s head. Did I say, anyone’s?

I understood your completely. Hell, it wasn’t that tough, was it now?

Apparently you were not able to comprehend my point. What did you think America was going to do after a concerted effort that killed 3000 of our fellow citizens, most civilians, women and children? Let’s say for argument they were your family. Now what? Do you forget and just move on? I would have been happy in my heart to fly a number of B52 bombers over each large Muslim dominated city in the Middle East and announced America’s displeasure with tons of ordnance. Would we have killed thousands of innocent civilians, women and children? Yup. Oh well.

Aren’t you tired of America being the whipping boy for the rest of the world; American military men and women dying to keep someone else free when many there refuse to fight? Yeah, me too.

Dennis

Kraken Loc: Barry's Bay

Full text: bin Laden's 'letter to America'

In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful,

"Permission to fight (against disbelievers) is given to those (believers) who are fought against, because they have been wronged and surely, Allah is Able to give them (believers) victory" [Quran 22:39]

"Those who believe, fight in the Cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve, fight in the cause of Taghut (anything worshipped other than Allah e.g. Satan). So fight you against the friends of Satan; ever feeble is indeed the plot of Satan."[Quran 4:76]

Some American writers have published articles under the title 'On what basis are we fighting?' These articles have generated a number of responses, some of which adhered to the truth and were based on Islamic Law, and others which have not. Here we wanted to outline the truth - as an explanation and warning - hoping for Allah's reward, seeking success and support from Him.

While seeking Allah's help, we form our reply based on two questions directed at the Americans:

(Q1) Why are we fighting and opposing you?
Q2)What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?

As for the first question: Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple:

(1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us.

a) You attacked us in Palestine:

(i) Palestine, which has sunk under military occupation for more than 80 years. The British handed over Palestine, with your help and your support, to the Jews, who have occupied it for more than 50 years; years overflowing with oppression, tyranny, crimes, killing, expulsion, destruction and devastation. The creation and continuation of Israel is one of the greatest crimes, and you are the leaders of its criminals. And of course there is no need to explain and prove the degree of American support for Israel. The creation of Israel is a crime which must be erased. Each and every person whose hands have become polluted in the contribution towards this crime must pay its*price, and pay for it heavily.

(ii) It brings us both laughter and tears to see that you have not yet tired of repeating your fabricated lies that the Jews have a historical right to Palestine, as it was promised to them in the Torah. Anyone who disputes with them on this alleged fact is accused of anti-semitism. This is one of the most fallacious, widely-circulated fabrications in history. The people of Palestine are pure Arabs and original Semites. It is the Muslims who are the inheritors of Moses (peace be upon him) and the inheritors of the real Torah that has not been changed. Muslims believe in all of the Prophets, including Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all. If the followers of Moses have been promised a right to Palestine in the Torah, then the Muslims are the most worthy nation of this.

When the Muslims conquered Palestine and drove out the Romans, Palestine and Jerusalem returned to Islaam, the religion of all the Prophets peace be upon them. Therefore, the call to a historical right to Palestine cannot be raised against the Islamic Ummah that believes in all the Prophets of Allah (peace and blessings be upon them) - and we make no distinction between them.

(iii) The blood pouring out of Palestine must be equally revenged. You must know that the Palestinians do not cry alone; their women are not widowed alone; their sons are not orphaned alone.

(b) You attacked us in Somalia; you supported the Russian atrocities against us in Chechnya, the Indian oppression against us in Kashmir, and the Jewish aggression against us in Lebanon.

(c) Under your supervision, consent and orders, the governments of our countries which act as your agents, attack us on a daily basis;

(i) These governments prevent our people from establishing the Islamic Shariah, using violence and lies to do so.

(ii) These governments give us a taste of humiliation, and places us in a large prison of fear and subdual.

(iii) These governments steal our Ummah's wealth and sell them to you at a paltry price.

(iv) These governments have surrendered to the Jews, and handed them most of Palestine, acknowledging the existence of their state over the dismembered limbs of their own people.

(v) The removal of these governments is an obligation upon us, and a necessary step to free the Ummah, to make the Shariah the supreme law and to regain Palestine. And our fight against these governments is not separate from out fight against you.

(d) You steal our wealth and oil at paltry prices because of you international influence and military threats. This theft is indeed the biggest theft ever witnessed by mankind in the history of the world.

(e) Your forces occupy our countries; you spread your military bases throughout them; you corrupt our lands, and you besiege our sanctities, to protect the security of the Jews and to ensure the continuity of your pillage of our treasures.

(f) You have starved the Muslims of Iraq, where children die every day. It is a wonder that more than 1.5 million Iraqi children have died as a result of your sanctions, and you did not show concern. Yet when 3000 of your people died, the entire world rises and has not yet sat down.

(g) You have supported the Jews in their idea that Jerusalem is their eternal capital, and agreed to move your embassy there. With your help and under your protection, the Israelis are planning to destroy the Al-Aqsa mosque. Under the protection of your weapons, Sharon entered the Al-Aqsa mosque, to pollute it as a preparation to capture and destroy it.

(2) These tragedies and calamities are only a few examples of your oppression and aggression against us. It is commanded by our religion and intellect that the oppressed have a right to return the aggression. Do not await anything from us but Jihad, resistance and revenge. Is it in any way rational to expect that after America has attacked us for more than half a century, that we will then leave her to live in security and peace?!!

(3) You may then dispute that all the above does not justify aggression against civilians, for crimes they did not commit and offenses in which they did not partake:

(a) This argument contradicts your continuous repetition that America is the land of freedom, and its leaders in this world. Therefore, the American people are the ones who choose their government by way of their own free will; a choice which stems from their agreement to its policies. Thus the American people have chosen, consented to, and affirmed their support for the Israeli oppression of the Palestinians, the occupation and usurpation of their land, and its continuous killing, torture, punishment and expulsion of the Palestinians. The American people have the ability and choice to refuse the policies of their Government and even to change it if they want.

(b) The American people are the ones who pay the taxes which fund the planes that bomb us in Afghanistan, the tanks that strike and destroy our homes in Palestine, the armies which occupy our lands in the Arabian Gulf, and the fleets which ensure the blockade of Iraq. These tax dollars are given to Israel for it to continue to attack us and penetrate our lands. So the American people are the ones who fund the attacks against us, and they are the ones who oversee the expenditure of these monies in the way they wish, through their elected candidates.

(c) Also the American army is part of the American people. It is this very same people who are shamelessly helping the Jews fight against us.

(d) The American people are the ones who employ both their men and their women in the American Forces which attack us.

(e) This is why the American people cannot be not innocent of all the crimes committed by the Americans and Jews against us.

(f) Allah, the Almighty, legislated the permission and the option to take revenge. Thus, if we are attacked, then we have the right to attack back. Whoever has destroyed our villages and towns, then we have the right to destroy their villages and towns. Whoever has stolen our wealth, then we have the right to destroy their economy. And whoever has killed our civilians, then we have the right to kill theirs.

The American Government and press still refuses to answer the question:

Why did they attack us in New York and Washington?

If Sharon is a man of peace in the eyes of Bush, then we are also men of peace!!! America does not understand the language of manners and principles, so we are addressing it using the language it understands.

For more go to

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver

dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho

Yup, well now we know whose side you are still supporting. Never a question in my mind. Thanks for confirming.

Dennis

Bill 45

Orders to attack on 9/11 came from Taliban's Afghan Government. right? If that is right, how come most of the people who pull off 9/11 were Saudi Arabian?

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

No, they came from Osama bin Laden, he was Al-Queda not Taliban. Bin Laden was Saudi, in fact he came out of a very wealthy Saudi family, I have seen it reported that Osama was worth as much as $300 million. He was stationing his terrorist camps in Afghanistan. You ask a good question, our government has information about Saudi involvement including Saudi governmental officials giving aid to those who attacked us on 9/11 that they will not let us see. It has been 20 years and the government refuses to declassify that information. That is why the families of the victims told Biden he was not welcome to attend the 20 year memorial service in honor of the 9/11 victims, because they feel that our government has no right to keep that information from them.

Bill 45

I see you would make a bad military leader. The more you known about the person who wants to kill you, the less dangers the person is. Part of making a person less danger is read everything the person wrote.

Bill 45

Good point, I did not known about information on Osama bin Laden and Saudi government that US government has and will not declassify. No wonder people in 20 year memorial of 9/11 told Biden to take a walk.

National Park

The Taliban did not attack the U.S.; Al Qaida did We had no choice but to go in Afghanistan to find Al Qaida, but we should never have stayed there for 20 years. After the trillions of dollars spent and American lives that were lost we were no closer to building a western style nation than we were 20 years ago.

dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho

And in your infinite lack of wisdom you have decided all that even though the subject of knowing your enemy has not been brought up by me in this thread. That makes you a corrupt liar. Congratulations. You don’t disappoint.

Dennis

dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho

Did you think for some reason I would disagree with any of that? Look at my posts. I never said the Taliban attacked America did I?

I said bomb all of the Muslims across the Middle East.

Dennis

berchman Loc: South Central PA

This statement of Bin Laden ALMOST makes me agree with Dennis' desire to bomb Muslim cities into oblivion, but wouldn't that have to include Dearborn, Michigan? (Dearborn, Michigan has the largest concentration of Muslim population in the United States.)