Wanderer2 Loc: Colorado Rocky Mountains

AP has just released a major upgrade available free on their website to current users, as is their policy. It's version 1.10.0.1127.

Also regarding Affinity Photo I ran across an article on PetaPixel on the subject of best alternatives to Photo Shop and the choice in the best overall category was AP (there were seveal other categorie with different bests). The review is at https://petapixel.com/2021/05/27/the-best-adobe-photoshop-alternatives/. Unlike some of the posts on AP on this forum in the past there was very high praise for this app.

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

A lot of performance improvements with this latest release. AP remains the best alternative to Photoshop as a raster editor and the price makes it the best deal in photo software hands down.

Unfortunately the current release does not address a number of long-standing deficiencies in the raw develop module. For raw conversion Affinity's Develop module is an overall poor choice. If you need a raster editor the solution is simple; just convert raw files with a better raw converter and pass a 16 bit TIFF to AP for further processing.

Wanderer2 Loc: Colorado Rocky Mountains

I have converted over 3000 raw files using AP and cannot identify the problems described above. It all works according to the design of the app which does have some differences in the way it does things from Photo Shop. For anyone wondering about this "issue" I recommend readiing the PetaPixel review and rating for AP that I quoted in my original post. It couldn't be more different than the descirption and claim ("an over all poor choice") made above. To repeat, they found AP to be the best overall software alternative to Photo Shop, and that's of all other software in existence.

I intended my post on the upgrade to be simply an informative one for those who use AP and this forum, and their are a substantial number of us here, not an invitation for denigrating this excellent app as I see and use it.

srt101fan

I don't want to speak for Ysarex, but your comments above offer a distorted view of the issue.

Ysarex did not say that Affinity is "an over all poor choice". He said that the Affinity Develop module is "an over all poor choice". Big difference!

He has explained to you repeatedly in other topics what his concern is. And, by the way, that concern seems to be shared by other advanced photo editing software users.

Say that his concern with the. Affinity Develop module is not relevant in your Affinity workflow, that's OK. But please don't continue with your misrepresentations of the issue..

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

The article makes no mention of the quality of AP's raw development. It only acknowledges AP converts raw files.

And so since the article made no mention of the quality of AP's raw Develop module, suggesting the article is different than my assessment is deceptive.

To repeat the article made no comment about the quality of AP's raw Develop module. Like the article I also said AP is the best alternative to Photoshop.

And if that's all you had done I wouldn't have commented.

People may be considering buying AP and people may be looking for photo processing software and see this post. Those people deserve good information if they're looking for facts to help make a decision. Here's some facts:

AP is a direct alternative to Photoshop and of the all the other options it's the best alternative. If you're looking for something like Photoshop but don't want to purchase Photoshop AP is your best choice.

AP is a raster image editor like Photoshop. Raster editors work with RGB image files and are able to directly alter the pixels in the file. Raster editors can not work directly with raw data and so raw files have to be converted first into RGB images for a raster editor. This is the same for Photoshop as it is for AP. To convert a raw file to an RGB image Photoshop is supplied with ACR (Adobe Camera Raw) and AP is supplied with it's Develop Persona.

Although I would agree that AP is the best raster editor alternative to Photoshop, AP's Develop Persona is a poor alternative to ACR. (Again a simple solution is to use AP but have raw files developed with other software.)

The biggest difference between AP's Develop Persona and ACR is that AP's Develop Persona will not save your work. ACR of course does save your work as does every other raw converter with the glaring exception of AP's Develop Persona. This means of course that should you reconsider the way you did something in AP's Develop Persona you can't just go back and change that but you have to start from scratch. Let's repeat that all other raw converters you can use will save your work.

In the earlier referenced PetaPixel article the first criteria they mentioned that was important to them was the ability to work non-destructively. I agree! I would rate that criteria way at the top of what I want from photo processing software. Once AP has an RGB image in hand it does a good job of working non-destructively. But if we compare ACR and AP's Develop Persona for raw file conversion we find a big difference. ACR has the ability to pass what Adobe calls a Smart Object over to Photoshop -- it's the RGB image with a link back to the raw data. So that while in Photoshop working on the RGB image you can actually click the Smart Object link and go back to ACR where all the work you did there is of course saved, make a change and that change will update back to Photoshop. This is the gold standard for non-destructive editing with a raster editor -- your raw editing work is included. AP has nothing like that and in fact because it discards your work when the raw data is converted to an RGB image there's nothing to go back to.

AP's Develop Persona has no support for camera input profiles. You're simply stuck with whatever they provide and you don't even have an option to bring your own. Again ACR comes with dozens of input profiles including good simulations of the ones in your camera and also the ability to add your own. Again this is standard for commercial raw converters.
Camera input profiles in LR -- yes.
Camera input profiles in ACR -- yes.
Camera input profiles in C1 -- yes.
Camera input profiles in PL4 -- yes.
Camera input profiles in RT -- yes.
Camera input profiles in ON1 -- yes.
Camera input profiles in SilkyPix -- yes.
And the list goes on.....

Raw files have red, green and blue color channels. Rarely do they all clip together. Most often the green channel clips first before the red and blue channels. When that happens a raw converter can step in and help by performing what we call highlight reconstruction. The software can basically use the data in the two intact channels to fabricate appropriate replacement data for missing channel data. We expect this effort from a good raw converter and it's a criteria that we judge them on. LR/ACR and Capture One lead the pack. They both do a terrific job of highlight reconstruction. But the other raw converters at least turn in a respectable performance. Even the FOSS programs RawTherapee and DarkTable do a good job at highlight reconstruction. Almost all of them at least try, well, except for AP's Develop Persona that doesn't even try.

Before you commit and convert your raw data to an RGB image you want to cross your Ts and dot you Is -- there's things you should have done before that big step. You need tools to do that work. For one make sure you're not clipping a color channel. For example a photo of a red rose can very likely clip the red channel and you want to catch that and fix it before you convert the raw data. The ideal tool for that is what we call an HSL (Hue, Saturation, Lightness) tool. Of course ACR has one. I can't think of any raw conversion software that doesn't.... oops, yes I can. The Develop Persona in AP doesn't have an HSL tool. That's just nuts -- not ready for prime time.

Delderby Loc: Derby UK

Would you kindly explain the deficiencies to which you refer. Are these major issues, or just different ways of doing things?

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

At least on the Mac, this issue is solved with the $40 application/plug-in known as Raw Power. Raw Power is a raw file developer written by the folks who wrote Apple Aperture (now unsupported abandonware). It is competitive with many other raw processors. It will use all the raw camera file profiles Apple embeds in their operating systems.

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

And you don't even have to spend $40.00 MAC or WIN. Use one of the FOSS raw converters. Download DarkTable or ART or LightZone and you're good to go at no cost.

Delderby Loc: Derby UK

To Xarex

Thanks for your explanations - which you anticipated before my above request published.

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

I've more or less stopped upgrading my programs. I find that the cost is generally not worth it. A free update is okay, but buying the new version of a program every eighteen months can get expensive.

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

They are not different ways of doing things. They are faults. How major they are depends on your expectations and your usage. For me and a lot of other photographers they can be show stoppers.

The AP Develop Persona provides:
A red eye tool
A blemish removal tool
Both a brush and gradient tool to mask local areas
A cropping tool
A white balance tool
Under the Basic tab you have adjustments for:
Exposure
Black point
Brightness
Contrast
Clarity
Saturation
Vibrance
WB temp
WB tint
Output profiles
Under the Lens tab you have adjustments for:
Lens profile
Distortion
Horizontal keystoning
Vertical keystoning
Rotation
Scaling
Chromatic aberration
Defringe
Vignette +/-
Under the Detail tab you have adjustments for:
Sharpen
Noise removal
Noise addition
Under the Tones tab you have adjustments for:
Curves
Blank and White
Split toning
And finally the Overlay tab lets you manage local adjustment areas you established with either the gradient or brush tools already noted.

That's a fair amount of things you can do. Paltry in comparison to other raw converters but still a lot there that you can do. The catch however is that if you use any of those tools listed above -- if you spend time working to improve your image using any of those tools listed above, when you click Develop AP will apply those adjustments, convert the raw file to an RGB image and then discard all that work. No other raw converter will do that to you. You have the RGB image but if you want to return to the raw file and modify what you did with those tools you have to start over from scratch.

The experts are all going to tell you that with access to the raw data you have the best opportunity to get the most from you data and you should do as much as possible with the raw data before converting to RGB and applying further processing. They're right about that. And that means you should adjust your image to best advantage before you click Develop in the AP Develop Persona and then.... poof AP throws your work away.

What's going on here? AP is selling a raster editor. All their effort is on the pixel pushing RGB image editing end. They want users who want those tools. They're not selling a raw processor and for them raw is something to get past and forget about. They have to supply a way for you to get that raw file open and converted, as such they're doing the minimum.

joewade2 Loc: Mindoro, Wis

Ysarex,

Thanks for this information. For me this was very helpful.
The only photo editing tool that I have used is Nikon Capture NX2. After learning how to use it I thought it worked quite well.

I have a Nikon D800. And work with Nikon RAW files.

If you wouldn't mind, would you please comment on the good, the bad, and the ugly associated with Nikon Capture NX2.

Thanks in advance.

Joe Wade,

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

NX2 was good as a basic raw converter for Nikon but it was limited in what it could accomplish. It's been replaced now with NX Studio which is a much more capable alternative and a good choice for Nikon users. It's a free download and you should install it and start using it.

What you get is Nikon's own raw conversion tech for their own cameras. That's a plus. What you don't get is the richness of the more expansive toolsets in the commercial raw processors. For example let's say you want to do some cloning/healing work on a photo. NX Studio has a very crude re-touch brush that is limited. The commercial processors will offer more.

joewade2 Loc: Mindoro, Wis

Ysarex,

Thanks again.

Joe Wade,

Delderby Loc: Derby UK

To Ysarex
Yes - in Affinity, once the RAW has been developed, and moving to Photo Persona, the result of the work is preserved, but the work steps are lost. However, I can return the developed image to Develop Persona to further adjust any of the steps I have taken, before or after further adjustments in Photo Persona. This would be, for me, an unusual course, as most of my PP needs would be carried out in Photo Persona.