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RAW vs JPEG
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Jun 1, 2021 09:04:24   #
Canisdirus
 
I do shoot almost exclusively in RAW.
I have a very good computer and lots of hard drive space(s)
I have paid for the software (so why not use it?)
I have the time...
I also like to capture maximum dynamic range (which JPEG limits)
Now I don't make the mistake of keeping all of that range...I clip all the time...on purpose.
Full dynamic range images...leave little to the imagination.
I have found folks will look longer at an image if something is 'hidden'.


JPEG saves a lot of time, and hardware needs...nothing wrong with that for the average shooter.
I suspect pro's tend to shoot RAW primarily, but not exclusively...if they need to shoot that image to their clients asap...JPEG.

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Jun 1, 2021 09:09:30   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
Not just printable.
Raw files have to be processed to be viewable.


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Jun 1, 2021 09:10:27   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
Not just printable.
Raw files have to be processed to be viewable.


I'll say again that this is a common misconception. My D500 raw images are quite viewable even using the CODEC built into Windows. And (one more time) because I have LightRoom set to use the "As Shot" camera values, both that software and the Nikon software present pleasantly viewable images from the beginning of the editing procesd.

If one chooses to handle the files differenrly, then yes, it is possible to make them appear as the washed out green cast images that we typically see presented here. But that is a choice, not a requirement.

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Jun 1, 2021 09:21:02   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
larryepage wrote:
I'll say again that this is a common misconception. My D500 raw images are quite viewable even using the CODEC built into Windows. And (one more time) because I have LightRoom set to use the "As Shot" camera values, both that software and the Nikon software present pleasantly viewable images from the beginning of the editing procesd.

If one chooses to handle the files differenrly, then yes, it is possible to make them appear as the washed out green cast images that we typically see presented here. But that is a choice, not a requirement.
I'll say again that this is a common misconception... (show quote)


Your raw files are viewable in the OS because you're viewing the camera processed JPEG. A version of the camera JPEG is embedded in every raw file for that very purpose.

In many processing apps like LR when you first see your raw files in a browser component of the app you're again likely viewing the embedded JPEG. LR will eventually get around to building it's own previews of your raw images and show you those in the library and once you process an image the preview will reflect your processing choices.

But in most cases when an unprocessed raw file is viewable it's the embedded camera JPEG that's being viewed.

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Jun 1, 2021 09:26:10   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
Ysarex wrote:
The sensor in your camera responds by converting light energy into electrical voltage. It is not color sensitive. To successfully record color we place a color filter array over the sensor so that each pixel in the sensor receives either red filtered light, green filtered light or blue filtered light. The sensor output is analog voltage which is converted in the camera into numerical values. Those numerical values are all either red filtered, green filtered or blue filtered values. That data is saved and is your raw file.

It takes special software but if you can open a raw file without processing it in any way it'll look like the first illustration below. The inset is an enlargement that let's you see the color filter array. First job is to remove the color filter array and assign the right color to each pixel in the image. This is a mathematical interpolation process we call demosaicing. In the second image below the raw data has been demosaiced and a white point has been assigned that get's us into a normal brightness range. There's still lots to do.

Pause at this point and realize that the camera software has to do all of this in order to create the camera JPEG. ALL DIGITAL IMAGES ARE HEAVILY POST PROCESSED. Either the camera does it or some computer software does it and either you get involved in controlling that or not. The idea that a final JPEG from the camera is somehow less post processed is bunk.

In the third image below two more processing changes have been applied. An input profile for the specific camera has been assigned -- the processing software needs to know about the camera used so that it can apply camera specific adjustments. And the white balance for the photo has been applied. It's looking better but it's flat. Digital camera data is recorded linearly and that means very flat looking photographs. No adjustment for that has been applied yet.

In the fourth image below a tone curve has been applied. This tone curve is the default tone curve generated by the raw converter. This is the image you would see without doing any post processing except to set the white balance. The white balance stored in the raw file is the auto-WB value set by the camera and the camera screwed that up.

The fifth image below is the camera SOOC JPEG in which the camera got the white balance wrong. The camera was set to auto-WB and that big yellow wall tripped it up and it tanked. Using the raw converter in image number 3 I set the white balance manually.

In the final 6th image I used the software supplied by the camera maker (Nikon Z7 and Nikon NX Studio) to re-created the SOOC JPEG but with the auto-WB error corrected. The 6th image is what the camera would have created if I had taken the trouble to set a custom WB at the scene before taking the photo like a good JPEG shooter should.

The processed image #4 from the raw converter has more contrast and increased color saturation compared with the processed JPEG from the camera #6. This is a difference due to the camera input profiles and tone curves applied. The raw conversion software did it differently than the camera. Some folks will prefer one over the other. I would prefer a final result between the two. The camera result is weak and the raw converter result is overdone. Therefore I would want to intervene in either process. I can do that more easily and quickly and successfully using the raw converter rather than editing the camera JPEG.
The sensor in your camera responds by converting l... (show quote)


Nice comparisons

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Jun 1, 2021 09:27:40   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
larryepage wrote:
I'll say again that this is a common misconception. My D500 raw images are quite viewable even using the CODEC built into Windows. And (one more time) because I have LightRoom set to use the "As Shot" camera values, both that software and the Nikon software present pleasantly viewable images from the beginning of the editing procesd.

If one chooses to handle the files differenrly, then yes, it is possible to make them appear as the washed out green cast images that we typically see presented here. But that is a choice, not a requirement.
I'll say again that this is a common misconception... (show quote)

There are different computer programs (functions) to process and display RAW and JPEGs.
One process for camera image data, another process is for processed camera image data.

In your RAW editor/viewer you are looking at an interpreted image of the RAW data presented to you so you can work with it.
So many people think it's a JPEG.....
If one says "save as JPEG", the software converts what you see in the editor and saves it.
A JPEG is a SAVED image interpretation (processed/converted) of the image data. Whether the camera does it or it is done via an editor.

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Jun 1, 2021 09:53:32   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
Ysarex wrote:
Your raw files are viewable in the OS because you're viewing the camera processed JPEG. A version of the camera JPEG is embedded in every raw file for that very purpose.

In many processing apps like LR when you first see your raw files in a browser component of the app you're again likely viewing the embedded JPEG. LR will eventually get around to building it's own previews of your raw images and show you those in the library and once you process an image the preview will reflect your processing choices.

But in most cases when an unprocessed raw file is viewable it's the embedded camera JPEG that's being viewed.
Your raw files are viewable in the OS because you'... (show quote)


The point is that I have never seen any of my images presented in any manner as the washed out green-tinted images that are presented as "unprocessed raw images" here. If your raw images look like that, it is because you made them look like that.

I know how (at least some) people set up their cameras to shoot raw. They have shown me. And if they want to do that, I'm fine with it. But I'm not going to do things that way. It's a waste of time for me. I see no possible benefit from it to pay back for the inconvenience.

If your camera is a box with a hole on one side for a lens and a sensor on the other side, that's great. I paid way too much money for mine to use it that way.

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Jun 1, 2021 09:54:32   #
montephoto
 
imagemeister wrote:
JPEG You loose some dynamic range - this is most noticeable in very high contrast subjects, higher ISO;s and smaller sensors/pixels. IOW, you can loose some highlight and shadow details under these conditions ......but for current full frame sensors this is very minimal IMO - others will disagree
.




Loose" is an adjective used to describe things that are not tight or contained. It can be used as a verb meaning to set free or release – (i.e. the hounds have been loosed) – but it is rarely used this way. "Lose" is a verb that means to suffer a loss, to be deprived of, to part with or to fail to keep possession of.

BTW, having a full frame sensor makes no difference.

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Jun 1, 2021 09:58:38   #
Soul Dr. Loc: Beautiful Shenandoah Valley
 
Here is an interesting article about the pros and cons of JPEG vs Raw.
My feeling is do whatever floats your boat and makes you happy.

will

https://digitalphotographycourses.co.za/shoot-jpeg-not-raw/

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Jun 1, 2021 10:00:01   #
Aldla Loc: Central NJ
 
After reading Pauls in camera adjustments I realized things I missed setting up my camera
So even though the subject might be repetitive for some it certainly has helped me
Remember you can always skip over any subject you are tired of reading

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Jun 1, 2021 10:04:31   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
larryepage wrote:
The point is that I have never seen any of my images presented in any manner as the washed out green-tinted images that are presented as "unprocessed raw images" here. If your raw images look like that, it is because you made them look like that.
...
...

So many people can't grasp the fact that one cannot "present" a RAW image, let alone unprocessed.

If you see an image on the web, it has been processed into something that web browsers can displey, JPEG, TIFF, ...

If you see a "RAW image", is interpreted.

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Jun 1, 2021 10:10:42   #
Canisdirus
 
Longshadow wrote:
So many people can't grasp the fact that one cannot "present" a RAW image, let alone unprocessed.

If you see an image on the web, it has been processed into something that web browsers can displey, JPEG, TIFF, ...

If you see a "RAW image", is interpreted.



Everything gets 'processed" ... since every digital camera has a 'processor'. No getting around that...however...

A RAW file, is an uncompressed version of the image file.
Essentially the camera takes the image data from the sensor, and saves it in an unedited and uncompressed format on the memory card.

It's the best one can get from scratch...hence the term RAW.

It's simply how much control does the shooter want to give to the camera in that processing.

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Jun 1, 2021 10:10:47   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
mgeyelin wrote:
How much can you fine tune a JPEG image vs RAW? I don’t really enjoy post processing RAW images, and don’t have an eye for it. How much control do you give up using JPEG.


Let's put it like this:

• Raw files are like exposed but unprocessed color negative film... a latent image waiting to be developed. All the potential is there.

• JPEG files are like fully processed slides or transparencies... Yes, you can duplicate them, but you're stuck with what was pre-set at the camera.

HOWEVER:

You have a great deal of control and many options to exercise at the camera:

• Lighting — angles, specularity, the ratio of specular highlight to diffuse highlight to shadow, color temperature and spectral integrity, etc.

• Exposure — JPEGs have about +0.33, -0.67 stops of latitude before you lose something noticeable, and permanently.

• White Balance and Hue — Together, you can control the "color balance" of the JPEG, much like we did with color correction filters in the color slide film era.

• Picture Styles or Profiles — Alter the shape of the characteristic curve used to emphasize shadows, highlights, mid-tones, contrast, etc.

• Dynamic range enhancement — Usually, this control adjusts how the camera responds to highlights and shadows, and how much of the information recorded is processed from the raw data.

• Contrast, Saturation, Sharpness, etc. — These are similar to the same-named controls in post-processing software.

All this is to say, you DO have significant PRE-PROCESSING control over how your camera turns raw data into JPEGs. Just as we did in the film era when making slides, ideally, everything is pre-determined BEFORE exposure.

JPEGs are 8-bit files. That's only 256 shades of each RGB primary color. Raw files are usually 12 bits (4096 shades per primary), or 14 bits (16,384 shades per primary)! When the camera makes JPEGs, it throws away MOST of the recorded information.

The irony of "JPEG capture" is that the closer to "perfect" you can get it at the camera (according to what you want), the more adjustment range you have in post-processing a JPEG. The farther away from that supposed perfection, the more limited are your options for adjustment!

Part of being either a professional or an advanced photographer is the art of control over results. Getting "perfect" (commercial quality) JPEGs takes knowledge, skill, experience, and patience.

There is a reason why noted photographer and photo educator, Will Crockett says, "Raw is for rookies. JPEGs are for pros who know where the controls are, what they do, and when to use them." His point was that it is much more difficult, but not impossible, to get top quality results at the camera than it is to get them from raw files in post-processing.

My own take is that both raw and JPEG "workflows" have their places... DIFFERENT places. There are very specific use cases for each. I use both, according to the circumstances.

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Jun 1, 2021 10:12:53   #
BebuLamar
 
I don't want to argue whether or not we should PP but if I shoot JPEG I won't do any PP or adjustments to the picture. If I even think that I might need to make any adjustments then it would be raw.

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Jun 1, 2021 10:19:21   #
davyboy Loc: Anoka Mn.
 
WJShaheen wrote:
Great examples above, thank you. You can also easily have the advantages of RAW without post processing by opening the manufacturer's free software (NX Studio, View-NX-I/Canon DPP4) and export or output to TIFF, or whichever is your preferred format. The photo will be rendered using your in-camera picture control settings. So, in the end, you don't lose THAT capability (to control your exposure options) and you retain the simplicity, as well as the ability to further do SOME enhancements. There is no need for one versus the other. JPEG is simply a step-down from the original captured data and is only useful to email/post to sites that impose limitations on size and format.
Great examples above, thank you. You can also easi... (show quote)


I use my jpegs in 8x10 enlargements, beautiful !

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