fotoman150

Thanks for everyone chiming in on my last topic. Sorry I couldn’t answer everyone individually.

I had another challenge recently.

I shot a real quick wedding (due to Covid). There were only a few shots of a quick ceremony.

The bride didn’t like the photos.

You see, the place was not well lit and my camera does not handle noise well so I used an 85 mm 1.4 lens at 1.4 but not for every shot just most of the shots.

I was creative about it showing the groom in focus with the bride out of focus in the background. Also shots like the bride holding out the bouquet with the flowers in focus and her out of focus. The bokeh was very nice. There were several shots with a different lens where everything was much more in focus.

She was upset because the pictures were “blurry and out of focus”. What I suddenly realized was that she was very left-brained so to speak and for her everything had to be in focus or it was a bad picture.

What do you do with people who don’t understand art and things like bokeh. My website shows plenty of shots with bokeh. But I’ve run into people who don’t understand things like soft focus and creative shots showing things like just the back of the dress or just their hands holding or his face cut off showing just his chin with her head leaning on his shoulder out of focus. Stuff like that.

I did not get a chance to sit down with the bride and groom and get a feel for them because he called me at the last minute and there was no time. I had served him before by photographing everyone in his office. He’s a great guy.

He liked the bokeh but she did not. She saw my website so she got a feel for my style.

I was really nervous because he is a lawyer. But he is the nicest guy in the world and he said he understood that it was a difference in artistic interpretation.

I remember another left brained person like that one time I fully decorated my studio and it was beautiful and I asked one of my clients how she liked it and everything was beautiful and she looked around and she said one of the ceiling tiles was out of place and that was her whole impression of everything. That was her comment about how beautiful the studio looked.

Left brained people?

Bill_de Loc: US

All you can do is make sure your clients understand your style before you take the job. If they know ahead of time what to expect it shouldn't be an issue. The worst thing is for a client to be surprised.

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fotoman150

I know and the groom was a lawyer. I got the sinking feeling in my chest when he called me and told me the bride didn’t like the pictures.

Quixdraw Loc: x

Cut your losses - materials only or free. Never been in your spot, but it is what I would do if I hadn't delivered an acceptable product to a previous customer.

Murray Loc: New Westminster

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

No matter what anyone tells you - it's all about the bride. Period. If she ain't happy, ain't nobody gonna be happy. So, give her whatever she wants, and consider getting yourself a camera that does nice images at 12,800 and higher ISO. You'll be glad you did. There is a silver lining to this cloud - you learned that having a fast lens is not the answer to low light conditions, but having a camera that can shoot really high ISO is priceless.

Oh, and if you think that you can impose an aesthetic sense on someone, you are in the wrong business. Ypu give them whatever they want. After all, they are paying for it - and they are not paying for what you want. It's never about being right - it's about the customer always being right.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

The problematic operative word here is "quick"! Sure it was a small wedding, perhaps somewhat abbreviated because of the pandemic- that is understandable. This does not preclude maskig up, getting together with the couple, finding out what the expectations are, and planning the schedule in such a way that you can get the job done properly and determine their expectations.

I'm all for artistic impressionism, a romantic approach to lighting, posing, and the use of selective focus, diffusion and soft focus. The fact is, however, some folks don't appreciate that and prefer a more traditional treatment with mostly sharp detailed images. "Bokeh" is nice but some fols don't wanna be part of the "bokeh" and be rendered seriously out of focus. Ethereal, soft and very moody shots are more impactful when all the images are not that way and placed in a sequence of sharp images.

I have had brides tell me to shoot all manner of romantic and emotional images and others tell me they don't mean any of that touchy-feely "mushy" stuff, Someof the lades wanna pose like fashion models- they love the attention and direction while some want straight photojournalism. Most of my clients trust me and they get a mixture.

I will never take on a wedding assignment on a phone call- especially if BOTH the bride and groom are not involved in the planning.

Another method you can adopt to avoid this kind of situation is to alter your shooting method and go into "flowing posing". This applies when you are shooting formal or casual portraits. This speeds things up so you can create more of a variety in a small window of opportunity and make certain that the couple has a choice of stylizations. As an example- suppose you want to shoot a profile of the bride with the groom "sentimentally soft" in the background- so you reduce your depth of field, bring the groom in behind the bride and make your shot- NEXT- bring the groom into the focal point and shoot them both sharp. You can apply this method to all your family and bridal party shots- bring people in a logical sequence so the couple can stay in place and alternate styles and angles quickly and efficiently.

Another suggestion to solve your immediate issue- a dissatisfied bride. Do a re-shoot of the formals- cover any dry cleaning costs and a replica of her flowers and do a killer session of the couple. I'm sure you have enough ceremony and reception shots so simply re-do the portraits.

In my contact form, I have a guarantee of satisfaction that is limited to the return of monies or a re-shoot of whatever can be re-shot. It might sound crazy but over the years, folks have asked me what happens if they are dissatisfied, if the "film" is ruined at the lab or some God-awful mess up of some kind. Rather than skirt the issue, I tell them right upfront and put it in writing. Thank goodness it has never happened but I have re-shot portrait sittings when the client was not totally pleased. People appreciate honest and good service and will cooperate when they realize you are doing your best to satisfy them. By the way- my indemnity insurance covers the aforementioned costs if I ever had to restage important wedding shots!

Sometimes, when issues like this come up on the forum, folks tend to kinda gang up and vilify the client- the bride is a "bridezilla" (I hate that term) and the customer is wrong and has no appreciation of art, etc! The truth is, customer dissatisfaction can occur in any business or profession. Wheter you deal in pictures, cars, hamburgers and hot dogs, or whatever, you have to be prepared to not take complaints personally and address the issue head-on and fix things up. It's not that the customer is always right- sometimes they ain't but your reputation is as good as your last assignment and you have to address complaints professionally.

I have photographed couples where the bride and/or the goom are lawyers, cops, prosecutors,
marshall arts instructors, and I am sure a few of the families were Mafiosa! These folks are not out to sue you, arrest you, or beat you up or put you in bed with a dead horse. All they want from their photographer is good images.

It's simple- SHOW AND TELL- show your work to potential clients and find out in advance if they dig your style or if the want something different. If you have alternative styles, approaches or plans, offer these up or if you can not accommodate their needs, tastes, requirements or concepts- gracefully decline the assignment. The "TELL" part is EXPLAIN what you are gonna do and how you are gonna do it! You don't need to explain the theory of depth of field or soft focus but you can explain how these effects are used to create moods and flattering interpretations. Make sure everyone is on the same page on the style, schedule and business arraignemtns. And LISTEN- make sure YOU know what they expect.

The complaint I usually get is that "there are too many great shots and new we have to spend more money on big albums, more prints, pictures for the family and so on! I like that!

SkyKing Loc: Thompson Ridge, NY

...weddings are all about the bride...any time she is not in focus is a bad shot...offer to do a post wedding shoot as a way to enhance the experience... most likely she is displacing some of her anger on you because it was not the wedding she dreamed of...take them to a romantic spot and have some fun...and make sure she is the center of attention...!

Quixdraw Loc: x

Covid lack of communication,and truncated wedding. Another camera would have been better, all about the bride, certainly the latter, possibly even the former, true. Unfortunately, with weddings there are no do overs. Works or it doesn't. The customer has to be satisfied. Of course there are the occasional unreasonable cases when the photos are completely up to standard but the customer still objects. This doesn't sound like one of those. Taking the high road is always a good career move.

User ID

ROTFLMFAO85f:1.4ROTFLMFAO!?!?!?!

Thank you for a very entertaining fable. Looking forward to a dozen pages more to follow :-)

Obligatory UHH gear-oriented monday morning QB advice: It is painfully clear that you need a LV camera. Acoarst, if you are already using one then there is really no polite way to offer up my next suggestion (so I won’t).

R.G. Loc: Scotland

IMO lesson #1 is that bokeh isn't everybody's cup of tea. Lots of photographers and photography forums make much of bokeh but I get the impression that in very general terms Joe and Jane Public have a tendency to prefer straight-forward photography. Plus when you exclude someone or something from the in-focus area you're relegating him/her/it to being part of the background, as opposed to being the main subject.

I would say lesson #2 is, if you're going to get creative, make sure that you have several straight versions to offer as alternatives. Anything to do with personal taste or personal preferences is a bit of a minefield, especially if you don't know those people very well.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

"The bride didn't like the photos" says it all. That can only happen if you didn't do the work up front to really understand what she wanted, and let her know what to expect from you. When someone hires a photographer for a once in an lifetime (hopefully) event, the shooter has got to get it right no matter what no do-overs, no excuses. Bad lighting? either bring more light or a camera that is good at shooting black cats in unlit coal mines. Wants images where both subjects are in focus - which is not all that unreasonable - you need to be shooting with shorter focal lengths and smaller apertures. Labeling the client as left-brained or anything else - well that is a no-no - you are trying to shift your failure to your client, when in reality you are 90% at fault for not properly qualifying your client, her needs, her desires - and your ability to deliver on that. If you have any concern about anything - like being intimidated by the fact that the husband is an attorney, then you should not have taken the job. E.L.. Shapiro gets it right - he is a working pro with a lifetime of experience - and fully appreciates that shooting pictures is expected, but less important than managing expectations - the hallmark of exceptional customer service. After all, any kid out of college can take wedding pictures - but few have the customer management skills to ensure that it is a wonderful experience. BTW, there is nothing inherently wrong with being a left-brained person - whatever you intended to infer by that.

traderjohn Loc: New York City

So to avoid being labeled the dreaded left-brain person one must agree with your beliefs.

cameraf4 Loc: Delaware

It is nice to see that we are making progress. In the not-too-distant-past your final comment might have been "Women?"

Leitz Loc: Solms

If I were in your shoes, I would sit down with the lady and explain artsy fartsy to her. And of course, I would reward her handsomely for her time.