Flash question: I have a Canon 7d ll and 5d lV and recently purchased a Canon 430EX lll-RT flash. My question is when I go to External Flash Functions Settings in the menu I get "This...

photowb

I have a Canon 7d ll and 5d lV and recently purchased a Canon 430EX lll-RT flash. My question is when I go to External Flash Functions Settings in the menu I get "This menu cannot be displayed. Incompatible flash or the flash power is turned off." This happens for both cameras and I would think the Canon flash would be compatible with the Canon bodies, and I have turned it on. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks,
Tom

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

photowb wrote:

I have a Canon 7d ll and 5d lV and recently purchased a Canon 430EX lll-RT flash. My question is when I go to External Flash Functions Settings in the menu I get "This menu cannot be displayed. Incompatible flash or the flash power is turned off." This happens for both cameras and I would think the Canon flash would be compatible with the Canon bodies, and I have turned it on. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks,
Tom

set the camera to manual
mount the flash in the flash shoe
turn the flash on and let it power up
Then turn the camera on
it should now see it has a flash so you can set the menu options

You might also check to see if some kind of protective film is over any of the contact points-sometimes they come that way from the factory.

photowb

Wow! Excellent the menu popped right up, thank you very much now I just have to learn how to use it...Tom

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

photowb wrote:

Wow! Excellent the menu popped right up, thank you very much now I just have to learn how to use it...Tom

You are welcome.
I use a 5Div, 7Dii, 80D & 90D with a Yongnuo 600 (clone of the Canon 600) and the wife has one of the baby Canon flashes with a T6s.

tcthome Loc: NJ

photowb wrote:

Wow! Excellent the menu popped right up, thank you very much now I just have to learn how to use it...Tom

Experiment with different out put settings & different positioning of the flash in distance & angle position. Flash is one piece of equipment that can improve your photography ten fold.

Thomas902 Loc: Washington DC

tcthome wrote:

Flash is one piece of equipment that can improve your photography ten fold.

Totally agree! Likely the most significant difference between "Hobbyist" and commercial shooters is mastery of Speedlites (Speedlights for Nikon). I cringe every time I hear a photographer state "I'm a Natural Light photographer and actually don't have to rely on Speedlites"

Yes their are epic Natural Light Wedding Shooters albeit they go for the "artsy" event scenarios while their second shooters pay the bills with all the images agreed upon in the Formal Contract for the event... Obtaining all "Deliverables" without Speedlites at a wedding event is not typically a winning game plan.

While Speedlites have a steep learning curve what helped me the most was coming up to "speed" with studio lighting BEFORE deploying Speedlites. Since nearly all studio strobes have modeling lights which reflect actual power settings (throughout their range) it can be far easier to visually determine outcomes prior to actually taking an image. Speedlites don't have this ability so setting lighting ratios can be (and often is) far more of a challenge.

Bests advice? Start simple with a single speedlite on camera and practice, practice and practice... Next move the speedlite off camera, practice with different modifiers... Finally bring a second speedlite into the mix... The combinations are limitless and results can be breathtaking...

All the best on your Speedlite journey photowb...

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

photowb wrote:

I have a Canon 7d ll and 5d lV and recently purchased a Canon 430EX lll-RT flash. My question is when I go to External Flash Functions Settings in the menu I get "This menu cannot be displayed. Incompatible flash or the flash power is turned off." This happens for both cameras and I would think the Canon flash would be compatible with the Canon bodies, and I have turned it on. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks,
Tom

You've solved the immediate problem, I see.

Since you just got that flash, it might be helpful to you to have some fairly "basic" info about the Canon Speedlite system.

First is that the flash can serve either as FILL or as FULL flash and it's very easy to switch.

To start, set the FLASH to ETTL mode. This uses through-the-lens metering by the camera to control the flash output. I recommend practicing with this and learn to use it, though you also can use the flash in fully manual mode if you wish.

For FILL flash, simply set the CAMERA to any of the auto exposure modes: Av, Tv or P (maybe M with Auto ISO too, though I've never tried it). When you do this, the camera will still base its auto exposure on ambient light conditions and the flash output will automatically be reduced by about 1.66 stops. This is useful for making natural looking images where the flash simply augments ambient light. It can be particularly useful midday when the sun is out and making for deep shadows. The flash helps "open up" the shadows.

For FULL flash, set the CAMERA to fully manual mode: M (without Auto ISO). Now the camera will ignore ambient light conditions and fire at "full power", as determined by the camera metering. This is a form of auto exposure, even though the camera is set to M. As you can see, to control the flash via the camera's menu, this is the mode you need to be using. (I'm pretty sure it isn't req'd to the camera's menu to set the flash... that the same settings can be made directly on the flash itself.) Usually this mode is used in low light conditions or when you want to sublimate ambient light to make backgrounds go darker, emphasizing the closer subject with the flash. Ambient light can still be part of the mix, but is reduced compared to flash. This looks less "natural", but can be a really nice effect none-the-less.

In both modes, when the flash is set to ETTL, to measure the amount of light needed for a "correct" exposure there is a low-powered "pre-flash" that's fired first. It's something like 1/64 power and is what the camera's meter measures in order to determine how much power to use for the "real" flash that immediately follows. Normally you don't even notice this is happening, since the two flash firings take place so quickly one after the other. However, if you ever use an optical trigger to fire off-camera flash, those can be tripped to early by the pre-flash and leave you wondering what went wrong with your lighting setup.

In either of the above modes you can dial in stronger or weaker flash. This is much like Exposure Compensation on the camera. Flash Exposure Compensation (sometimes "FEC") can be done either in the camera menu or using the controls on the back of the flash itself.

In either of the above modes you also can use a couple specialized flash techniques... High Speed Sync or 2nd Curtain Sync. For all practical purpose, these are opposites (you can't set both at the same time, anyway).

High Speed Sync is just what it sounds like. It allows you to use flash with shutter speeds faster than the camera's flash sync speed (usually 1/200 or 1/250, depending upon model). Just keep in mind that HSS significantly reduces the distance flash can reach. The faster the shutter speed, the shorter the distance. I don't know if the 400EX-series flash have it, but the 500EX series I use have a simple scale showing the distance the flash is able to reach, based upon the camera's settings (this can be set by the user to read out in feet or meters). I've used HSS fairly often in combination with a Flash Extender and telephoto lenses, for fill flash with subjects at a distance, opening up shadows and adding a catchlight to the subject's eyes. You have to be careful doing this or there will be too much eyeshine (with animals) or redeye (with people). One trick to reduce those problems is to put the flash on a bracket away from the lens axis and connect it to the camera via an off-camera shoe cord.

2nd Curtain Sync is normally used with slower shutter speeds and moving subjects. What it does is time the flash to fire just before the 2nd curtain of the shutter closes, at the end of the exposure. The reason for this is the mix of ambient and flash light, when using the normal 1st curtain sync, will cause any "light trails" to appear to be in front of the subject, as if it's going backward. By instead syncing with the 2nd curtain, the light trails appear behind the subject, suggest forward movement in the image. This is because the light trails are ambient light being recorded at the beginning of the exposure, while the 2nd curtain firing of the flash at the end provides the primary illumination.

There are other nuances... such as strobe effects or using various light modifiers on the flash. But, in my opinion, the above are the basic things to experiment with and learn how they work, to be able to handle most situations with the modern EX flashes. (Note: I have no idea how the latest Canon EL-series flashes work. They may be the same or may be different. I get the impression the EL are more fully automated and even simpler to use, but have never used any of them personally.)

I often think the Speedlite system is made to sound complicated and difficult. It's really easier to use than the user manuals and books make it sound. It's way easier... as well as more consistent and reliable... than the flashes from years ago. After you enable ETTL on the flash itself, then you just need to decide whether you want FILL or FULL flash and set the camera accordingly to your choice of AE modes for FILL or to fully M mode for FULL flash. Then you can fine tune the flash's effect as you see fit. Through-the-lens-flash metering has been a real game changer, IMO. I'm still using older model EX flash with optically controlled multi-flash control. Radio control such your flash has is a big improvement that I'll have to convert to some day.

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

amfoto1 wrote:

You've solved the immediate problem, I see.

Since you just got that flash, it might be helpful to you to have some fairly "basic" info about the Canon Speedlite system.

First is that the flash can serve either as FILL or as FULL flash and it's very easy to switch.

To start, set the FLASH to ETTL mode. This uses through-the-lens metering by the camera to control the flash output. I recommend practicing with this and learn to use it, though you also can use the flash in fully manual mode if you wish.

For FILL flash, simply set the CAMERA to any of the auto exposure modes: Av, Tv or P (maybe M with Auto ISO too, though I've never tried it). When you do this, the camera will still base its auto exposure on ambient light conditions and the flash output will automatically be reduced by about 1.66 stops. This is useful for making natural looking images where the flash simply augments ambient light. It can be particularly useful midday when the sun is out and making for deep shadows. The flash helps "open up" the shadows.

For FULL flash, set the CAMERA to fully manual mode: M (without Auto ISO). Now the camera will ignore ambient light conditions and fire at "full power", as determined by the camera metering. This is a form of auto exposure, even though the camera is set to M. As you can see, to control the flash via the camera's menu, this is the mode you need to be using. (I'm pretty sure it isn't req'd to the camera's menu to set the flash... that the same settings can be made directly on the flash itself.) Usually this mode is used in low light conditions or when you want to sublimate ambient light to make backgrounds go darker, emphasizing the closer subject with the flash. Ambient light can still be part of the mix, but is reduced compared to flash. This looks less "natural", but can be a really nice effect none-the-less.

In both modes, when the flash is set to ETTL, to measure the amount of light needed for a "correct" exposure there is a low-powered "pre-flash" that's fired first. It's something like 1/64 power and is what the camera's meter measures in order to determine how much power to use for the "real" flash that immediately follows. Normally you don't even notice this is happening, since the two flash firings take place so quickly one after the other. However, if you ever use an optical trigger to fire off-camera flash, those can be tripped to early by the pre-flash and leave you wondering what went wrong with your lighting setup.

In either of the above modes you can dial in stronger or weaker flash. This is much like Exposure Compensation on the camera. Flash Exposure Compensation (sometimes "FEC") can be done either in the camera menu or using the controls on the back of the flash itself.

In either of the above modes you also can use a couple specialized flash techniques... High Speed Sync or 2nd Curtain Sync. For all practical purpose, these are opposites (you can't set both at the same time, anyway).

High Speed Sync is just what it sounds like. It allows you to use flash with shutter speeds faster than the camera's flash sync speed (usually 1/200 or 1/250, depending upon model). Just keep in mind that HSS significantly reduces the distance flash can reach. The faster the shutter speed, the shorter the distance. I don't know if the 400EX-series flash have it, but the 500EX series I use have a simple scale showing the distance the flash is able to reach, based upon the camera's settings (this can be set by the user to read out in feet or meters). I've used HSS fairly often in combination with a Flash Extender and telephoto lenses, for fill flash with subjects at a distance, opening up shadows and adding a catchlight to the subject's eyes. You have to be careful doing this or there will be too much eyeshine (with animals) or redeye (with people). One trick to reduce those problems is to put the flash on a bracket away from the lens axis and connect it to the camera via an off-camera shoe cord.

2nd Curtain Sync is normally used with slower shutter speeds and moving subjects. What it does is time the flash to fire just before the 2nd curtain of the shutter closes, at the end of the exposure. The reason for this is the mix of ambient and flash light, when using the normal 1st curtain sync, will cause any "light trails" to appear to be in front of the subject, as if it's going backward. By instead syncing with the 2nd curtain, the light trails appear behind the subject, suggest forward movement in the image. This is because the light trails are ambient light being recorded at the beginning of the exposure, while the 2nd curtain firing of the flash at the end provides the primary illumination.

There are other nuances... such as strobe effects or using various light modifiers on the flash. But, in my opinion, the above are the basic things to experiment with and learn how they work, to be able to handle most situations with the modern EX flashes. (Note: I have no idea how the latest Canon EL-series flashes work. They may be the same or may be different. I get the impression the EL are more fully automated and even simpler to use, but have never used any of them personally.)

I often think the Speedlite system is made to sound complicated and difficult. It's really easier to use than the user manuals and books make it sound. It's way easier... as well as more consistent and reliable... than the flashes from years ago. After you enable ETTL on the flash itself, then you just need to decide whether you want FILL or FULL flash and set the camera accordingly to your choice of AE modes for FILL or to fully M mode for FULL flash. Then you can fine tune the flash's effect as you see fit. Through-the-lens-flash metering has been a real game changer, IMO. I'm still using older model EX flash with optically controlled multi-flash control. Radio control such your flash has is a big improvement that I'll have to convert to some day.

You've solved the immediate problem, I see. br b... (show quote)

Do you mind if I copy this for the Senior Center Photo Club? It is a lot better than I can explain it and a lot shorter than any of the books on flash. The principles can be applied to other brands of flash and camera just fine.
One day we may be able to meet at the center again and if they haven't all evaporated the 8 people who showed up in Feb for a basic photo class "may" return. I know my hints tips and lessons I have been e-mailing stopped getting many responses a couple of months ago. I don't blame them, I was tired of searching, editing etc. so they must have been tired of trying to understand the stuff without being face to face and hands on.

raymondh Loc: Walker, MI

amfoto1 wrote:

You've solved the immediate problem, I see.

Since you just got that flash, it might be helpful to you to have some fairly "basic" info about the Canon Speedlite system.

First is that the flash can serve either as FILL or as FULL flash and it's very easy to switch.

To start, set the FLASH to ETTL mode. This uses through-the-lens metering by the camera to control the flash output. I recommend practicing with this and learn to use it, though you also can use the flash in fully manual mode if you wish.

For FILL flash, simply set the CAMERA to any of the auto exposure modes: Av, Tv or P (maybe M with Auto ISO too, though I've never tried it). When you do this, the camera will still base its auto exposure on ambient light conditions and the flash output will automatically be reduced by about 1.66 stops. This is useful for making natural looking images where the flash simply augments ambient light. It can be particularly useful midday when the sun is out and making for deep shadows. The flash helps "open up" the shadows.

For FULL flash, set the CAMERA to fully manual mode: M (without Auto ISO). Now the camera will ignore ambient light conditions and fire at "full power", as determined by the camera metering. This is a form of auto exposure, even though the camera is set to M. As you can see, to control the flash via the camera's menu, this is the mode you need to be using. (I'm pretty sure it isn't req'd to the camera's menu to set the flash... that the same settings can be made directly on the flash itself.) Usually this mode is used in low light conditions or when you want to sublimate ambient light to make backgrounds go darker, emphasizing the closer subject with the flash. Ambient light can still be part of the mix, but is reduced compared to flash. This looks less "natural", but can be a really nice effect none-the-less.

In both modes, when the flash is set to ETTL, to measure the amount of light needed for a "correct" exposure there is a low-powered "pre-flash" that's fired first. It's something like 1/64 power and is what the camera's meter measures in order to determine how much power to use for the "real" flash that immediately follows. Normally you don't even notice this is happening, since the two flash firings take place so quickly one after the other. However, if you ever use an optical trigger to fire off-camera flash, those can be tripped to early by the pre-flash and leave you wondering what went wrong with your lighting setup.

In either of the above modes you can dial in stronger or weaker flash. This is much like Exposure Compensation on the camera. Flash Exposure Compensation (sometimes "FEC") can be done either in the camera menu or using the controls on the back of the flash itself.

In either of the above modes you also can use a couple specialized flash techniques... High Speed Sync or 2nd Curtain Sync. For all practical purpose, these are opposites (you can't set both at the same time, anyway).

High Speed Sync is just what it sounds like. It allows you to use flash with shutter speeds faster than the camera's flash sync speed (usually 1/200 or 1/250, depending upon model). Just keep in mind that HSS significantly reduces the distance flash can reach. The faster the shutter speed, the shorter the distance. I don't know if the 400EX-series flash have it, but the 500EX series I use have a simple scale showing the distance the flash is able to reach, based upon the camera's settings (this can be set by the user to read out in feet or meters). I've used HSS fairly often in combination with a Flash Extender and telephoto lenses, for fill flash with subjects at a distance, opening up shadows and adding a catchlight to the subject's eyes. You have to be careful doing this or there will be too much eyeshine (with animals) or redeye (with people). One trick to reduce those problems is to put the flash on a bracket away from the lens axis and connect it to the camera via an off-camera shoe cord.

2nd Curtain Sync is normally used with slower shutter speeds and moving subjects. What it does is time the flash to fire just before the 2nd curtain of the shutter closes, at the end of the exposure. The reason for this is the mix of ambient and flash light, when using the normal 1st curtain sync, will cause any "light trails" to appear to be in front of the subject, as if it's going backward. By instead syncing with the 2nd curtain, the light trails appear behind the subject, suggest forward movement in the image. This is because the light trails are ambient light being recorded at the beginning of the exposure, while the 2nd curtain firing of the flash at the end provides the primary illumination.

There are other nuances... such as strobe effects or using various light modifiers on the flash. But, in my opinion, the above are the basic things to experiment with and learn how they work, to be able to handle most situations with the modern EX flashes. (Note: I have no idea how the latest Canon EL-series flashes work. They may be the same or may be different. I get the impression the EL are more fully automated and even simpler to use, but have never used any of them personally.)

I often think the Speedlite system is made to sound complicated and difficult. It's really easier to use than the user manuals and books make it sound. It's way easier... as well as more consistent and reliable... than the flashes from years ago. After you enable ETTL on the flash itself, then you just need to decide whether you want FILL or FULL flash and set the camera accordingly to your choice of AE modes for FILL or to fully M mode for FULL flash. Then you can fine tune the flash's effect as you see fit. Through-the-lens-flash metering has been a real game changer, IMO. I'm still using older model EX flash with optically controlled multi-flash control. Radio control such your flash has is a big improvement that I'll have to convert to some day.

You've solved the immediate problem, I see. br b... (show quote)

Thank you for these very understandable speed light operational procedures!

karenmr

amfoto1 wrote:

You've solved the immediate problem, I see.

Since you just got that flash, it might be helpful to you to have some fairly "basic" info about the Canon Speedlite system.

First is that the flash can serve either as FILL or as FULL flash and it's very easy to switch.

To start, set the FLASH to ETTL mode. This uses through-the-lens metering by the camera to control the flash output. I recommend practicing with this and learn to use it, though you also can use the flash in fully manual mode if you wish.

For FILL flash, simply set the CAMERA to any of the auto exposure modes: Av, Tv or P (maybe M with Auto ISO too, though I've never tried it). When you do this, the camera will still base its auto exposure on ambient light conditions and the flash output will automatically be reduced by about 1.66 stops. This is useful for making natural looking images where the flash simply augments ambient light. It can be particularly useful midday when the sun is out and making for deep shadows. The flash helps "open up" the shadows.

For FULL flash, set the CAMERA to fully manual mode: M (without Auto ISO). Now the camera will ignore ambient light conditions and fire at "full power", as determined by the camera metering. This is a form of auto exposure, even though the camera is set to M. As you can see, to control the flash via the camera's menu, this is the mode you need to be using. (I'm pretty sure it isn't req'd to the camera's menu to set the flash... that the same settings can be made directly on the flash itself.) Usually this mode is used in low light conditions or when you want to sublimate ambient light to make backgrounds go darker, emphasizing the closer subject with the flash. Ambient light can still be part of the mix, but is reduced compared to flash. This looks less "natural", but can be a really nice effect none-the-less.

In both modes, when the flash is set to ETTL, to measure the amount of light needed for a "correct" exposure there is a low-powered "pre-flash" that's fired first. It's something like 1/64 power and is what the camera's meter measures in order to determine how much power to use for the "real" flash that immediately follows. Normally you don't even notice this is happening, since the two flash firings take place so quickly one after the other. However, if you ever use an optical trigger to fire off-camera flash, those can be tripped to early by the pre-flash and leave you wondering what went wrong with your lighting setup.

In either of the above modes you can dial in stronger or weaker flash. This is much like Exposure Compensation on the camera. Flash Exposure Compensation (sometimes "FEC") can be done either in the camera menu or using the controls on the back of the flash itself.

In either of the above modes you also can use a couple specialized flash techniques... High Speed Sync or 2nd Curtain Sync. For all practical purpose, these are opposites (you can't set both at the same time, anyway).

High Speed Sync is just what it sounds like. It allows you to use flash with shutter speeds faster than the camera's flash sync speed (usually 1/200 or 1/250, depending upon model). Just keep in mind that HSS significantly reduces the distance flash can reach. The faster the shutter speed, the shorter the distance. I don't know if the 400EX-series flash have it, but the 500EX series I use have a simple scale showing the distance the flash is able to reach, based upon the camera's settings (this can be set by the user to read out in feet or meters). I've used HSS fairly often in combination with a Flash Extender and telephoto lenses, for fill flash with subjects at a distance, opening up shadows and adding a catchlight to the subject's eyes. You have to be careful doing this or there will be too much eyeshine (with animals) or redeye (with people). One trick to reduce those problems is to put the flash on a bracket away from the lens axis and connect it to the camera via an off-camera shoe cord.

2nd Curtain Sync is normally used with slower shutter speeds and moving subjects. What it does is time the flash to fire just before the 2nd curtain of the shutter closes, at the end of the exposure. The reason for this is the mix of ambient and flash light, when using the normal 1st curtain sync, will cause any "light trails" to appear to be in front of the subject, as if it's going backward. By instead syncing with the 2nd curtain, the light trails appear behind the subject, suggest forward movement in the image. This is because the light trails are ambient light being recorded at the beginning of the exposure, while the 2nd curtain firing of the flash at the end provides the primary illumination.

There are other nuances... such as strobe effects or using various light modifiers on the flash. But, in my opinion, the above are the basic things to experiment with and learn how they work, to be able to handle most situations with the modern EX flashes. (Note: I have no idea how the latest Canon EL-series flashes work. They may be the same or may be different. I get the impression the EL are more fully automated and even simpler to use, but have never used any of them personally.)

I often think the Speedlite system is made to sound complicated and difficult. It's really easier to use than the user manuals and books make it sound. It's way easier... as well as more consistent and reliable... than the flashes from years ago. After you enable ETTL on the flash itself, then you just need to decide whether you want FILL or FULL flash and set the camera accordingly to your choice of AE modes for FILL or to fully M mode for FULL flash. Then you can fine tune the flash's effect as you see fit. Through-the-lens-flash metering has been a real game changer, IMO. I'm still using older model EX flash with optically controlled multi-flash control. Radio control such your flash has is a big improvement that I'll have to convert to some day.

You've solved the immediate problem, I see. br b... (show quote)

Thank you amfoto1 for your easy to understand Speedlite usage explanation . A million bells finally went off in my brain and I finally get it!!!

photowb

Thank you for the tutorial, very helpful indeed!

Thomas902 Loc: Washington DC

amfoto1 wrote:

...you also can use a couple specialized flash techniques... High Speed Sync...

Alan thank you for your splendid orientation on Canon's wonderful Speedlites and Kudos on your equestrian photography on your Flickr portal... wonderfully done!

As for HSS (High Speed Sync) it is by far and away my most beloved attribute of nearly all current speedlites combined with even consumer grade bodies... Virtually all of fashion magazine publication's ads shot on location are captured using HSS... it is an awesome tool which I use all the time...

An example of HSS below was shot at 1/2500 f3/2 with a cluster of four SB-910's through a 72 inch parabolic translucent... This epic move by a gifted ballerina is rendered in crystal clear acuity by off-camera flash in HSS. I now book fashion editorial work primarily on the strength of my HSS portfolio renderings. It's what my clients cherish in their deliverables...

photowb something to keep in mind is my journey with Speedlights began with a single SB-700 unit, albeit it has taken years to come up the curve to where I am now... There is absolutely no substitute for practice...

Hope this helps photowb
Or is at least food for thought... again all the best on your journey...
.

Speedlight Speedlight Key in HSS at 1/2500 f3/2

(Download)

photowb

Thank you, the journey continues.