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Is this too soft, given the conditions?
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Feb 15, 2020 09:31:52   #
Bultaco Loc: Aiken, SC
 
All things considered it's a great set, as mentioned I try to shoot wildlife at f8 when possible.

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Feb 15, 2020 10:13:03   #
StanMac Loc: Tennessee
 
Personally, I like the full image better. The landscape around the herd just seems to put the horses in context with their environment better to me. Nice shot!

Stan

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Feb 15, 2020 12:09:06   #
crafterwantabe Loc: Mn
 
Beautiful pictures

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Feb 15, 2020 13:02:48   #
Earnest Botello Loc: Hockley, Texas
 
Under those conditions, I think it is a great shot, Sally.

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Feb 15, 2020 15:32:41   #
Sally D
 
toxdoc42 wrote:
If we are allowed to be honest and not take the "party line" about freezing action, I personally, prefer a little controlled motion blur in some circumstances. I would have actually shotnsome frames at a slower speed and followed the action with the camera, thus trying to have the horses relatively frozen with movement shown in their legs and the background. I know that it may not be the general desire, but I don't like just frozen forms.


That's a really interesting suggestion. I'm going to try it next time I'm down there. Any idea on what speed you'd try, remembering that they're in the distance?

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Feb 15, 2020 15:34:52   #
Sally D
 
Bultaco wrote:
All things considered it's a great set, as mentioned I try to shoot wildlife at f8 when possible.


Thanks. I usually stay around f5 to have a shallower depth of field but maybe when I'm shooting at such a distance I should up it to f8.

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Feb 15, 2020 15:37:57   #
Sally D
 
StanMac wrote:
Personally, I like the full image better. The landscape around the herd just seems to put the horses in context with their environment better to me. Nice shot!

Stan


I have another version where I left more of the landscape but my husband preferred this one so I used it instead. Thanks for your input.

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Feb 15, 2020 15:49:20   #
Sally D
 
Grahame wrote:
Firstly, it's a great capture. But it's not one I would ever consider basing an opinion on there being something possibly wrong with your lens.

Here's a few of my observations/ideas regarding it's possibly perceived lack of IQ by some;

a) According to the Exif it was shot at 340mm and f/5.6. I'm not familiar with this lens but in general getting near max FL and wide open is not going to be the sharpest, but can often be compensated in post.

b) There appears a fair amount of noise in the image although shot at ISO400 that may have affected sharpness. Looking in the Exif at the in post work it shows the following,

Exposure 2012 +0.60
Contrast 2012 0
Highlights 2012 -100
Shadows 2012 +100
Whites 2012 +38
Blacks 2012 0
Clarity 2012 +21
Dehaze +24

If this is correct, I suspect increasing exposure, lifting the shadows 100% along with the added clarity and dehaze has not helped.

c) What I do find interesting is that the horses all look sharper than any of the ground/background foliage around the same focus plane which makes me wonder if you were very slightly panning this shot to achieve best frame positioning for the group.

d) The harsh lighting also didn't help.

Interesting to hear others thoughts on the above.
Firstly, it's a great capture. But it's not one I ... (show quote)


This shot was taken very late in the day. We were in the shadow; the horses were still in the light. I was using single spot focus and focusing on the horses. I seem to do better with single spot rather than center weighted. The depth of field would have been very shallow so that makes get account for the background not being completely focused. But as I think about it, I suspect you are right about the panning. I was following the horses and shooting continuously.
I also think you're correct about f/5.6 but light was limited and although I could have increased the ISO, I was afraid of noise. Perhaps that would have been the better alternative, though!!
Your response and observations are exactly what I was hoping for. If I can improve my technique, I certainly want to! Thanks again.

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Feb 15, 2020 15:57:19   #
Sally D
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Look at the image details at 100%. The lead horse looks great, from say the lead leg / shoulder through the eye of the nearest horse immediately behind. Imagine the image if all the horses had this same level of detail. The EXIF details show possibilities. As noted by others, 1/200 seems a bit slow for this moving group. Based on the horses relative to the static vegetation, the panning technique seems excellent as well as the IS support for the lens. Probably a bit faster shutter is an option to better freeze the horses. The EOS data has been striped in the processing, so we can't see where the AF point(s) were located nor the AF mode. But still, where the focus is sharpest, the image is great for this distance and the fine details where the focus is sharpest.

But more important than a faster shutter would be a smaller aperture, both for the sharpness of the lens and for a depth of field to cover this group. Look the final trailing horses in the left of the image. They're not soft from being too slow on the shutter. Rather, these horses are outside the depth of field at f/5.6 for a lens that isn't sharpest at f/5.6. Something in the f/8 to f/10 range would be a better choice for sharper results at 300mm and longer, and to extend the depth of field, even keeping the same shutterspeed at 1/200.
Look at the image details at 100%. The lead horse ... (show quote)


I'm so glad you commented. I know from the past that your observations are usually spot on. I'm sure you're correct about the aperture setting. I've gotten in the habit of using a very low number to create a shallow depth of field. That works fine when I'm close to my subject but obviously not so well in this situation. That's easy to address and I can fix it!
Thanks again.

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Feb 15, 2020 16:01:00   #
Sally D
 
steve49 wrote:
I thk it's an excellent shot...
slightly soft edges in running horses taken at distance. What's wrong w that?

Overall I thk I would like a crop in the middle of those 2.


I am going to go back and recrop with a bit more background. I almost cut off the last guy's tail!!

Thanks!

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Feb 15, 2020 16:06:28   #
Sally D
 
olemikey wrote:
Let's see - horses galloping at a fast pace, obviously a good distance away (quite far for a 400), panning evident from foilage blur, nobody is posing....looks pretty damn good to me! Grahame noted some exif details for thought. Perhaps a increase in shutter speed - in that harsh light faster (maybe 1/500 to 1/1000) would freeze the horses more and you'd still have some panning/movement blur), increase exposure somewhat and an ISO dip.... At that distance there may be some atmospheric distortion too (like heatwaves on a highway), and Chg Canon mentioned DOF, another consideration.

All that aside, from a reasonable viewing distance (like on a wall) it would convey the scene well, I'd hang it. Sharpness while relevant, is not always the greatest concern.... AND it is easy to pick at things when "recliner quarterbacking" a scene. Put it on a larger monitor or TV screen and stand back and look at it... from 4 feet at 22" wide on my monitor it looks great - if it makes you happy and conveys what you desired, then it's a keeper!

My wife noticed a couple of the mares look pregnant (maybe)... hope they foal well...and all get to run like the wind!! Thanks for sharing.
Let's see - horses galloping at a fast pace, obvio... (show quote)


Thanks so much for your comments. I think that increasing the f stop is really something I should try. I've gotten in a bad habit of generally shooting nearly wide open to create a shallow depth of field. That probably was a poor choice in this case!
Thanks again.

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Feb 15, 2020 18:56:14   #
JayRay Loc: Missouri
 
Sally D wrote:
I recently posted some pictures of wild horses taken on the Yakama Indian Reservation. The horses are extremely wild. I just learned it's because they've been shot at. Consequently, the pictures are taken in RAW at 400mm with my Canon 400 L lens. I love the lens but one of the Hogs responded that they were soft and suggested there may be something wrong with my lens or maybe my technique. I'd really like your opinion. I know they're not tact sharp. Is it because I'm doing something wrong or am I just pushing my lens to the limit? I'm posting a picture as taken as well as the cropped version to help you know how far out the horses are. My husband, a hunter says he thinks they were about 1/2 mile away.
Thanks for your time and suggestions.
I recently posted some pictures of wild horses tak... (show quote)



Very nice photograph! Given the 340mm focal length lens, the 1/200 sec shutter speed, and the 1/2 mile distance; this exposure should adequately stop motion of 88 MPH. Therefore, I believe that the "soft" issue is with the depth of field created by the aperture of f/5.6. It would have been a sharper photograph at f/8 (or f/11).

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Feb 15, 2020 19:19:33   #
Grahame Loc: Fiji
 
JayRay wrote:
Therefore, I believe that the "soft" issue is with the depth of field created by the aperture of f/5.6. It would have been a sharper photograph at f/8 (or f/11).


By estimation the subject distance was around 600m which with the settings used would have given a very significant DoF, far greater than the depth of the horse group. I do not believe the DoF has had any bearing on the perceived "softness" of the horses.

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Feb 15, 2020 20:36:55   #
vicksart Loc: Novato, CA -earthquake country
 
I like both of your images Sally. I have the same lens and find it's not as "crisp" as I'd like when I'm shooting at great distances. Filling the frame as much as possible seems to help, but that's not always an option.

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Feb 15, 2020 23:28:10   #
Sally D
 
vicksart wrote:
I like both of your images Sally. I have the same lens and find it's not as "crisp" as I'd like when I'm shooting at great distances. Filling the frame as much as possible seems to help, but that's not always an option.


Thank you. I love the lens in most situations. I do think though that the maybe shooting with a higher f stop might help a bit. I’ve also thought about getting a 1.4 teleconverter for the lens but from what I’ve read, I’m probably just as well off with cropping and the lens by itself. Have you tried a teleconverter with this lens?

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