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FoCal program and tele-lenses: looking for help not a lesson what I should have purchased
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May 9, 2019 16:23:11   #
jpgto Loc: North East Tennessee
 

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May 9, 2019 17:14:11   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
amfoto1 wrote:
FoCal does multiple tests for focus accuracy, then arrives at a recommended adjustment.

How useful that will be to you depends to a large degree on the camera you're using.

Not all cameras have a micro focus adjustment feature. For example, among the current Canon models only the 80D and higher models have it... none of the "Rebel" series have it.

Older Canon cameras had means of adjusting up to 20 lenses and only doing a single adjustment per lens. But, worse for some of us, they weren't "lens specific". MFA made lens MODEL adjustments. For example, if you had two Canon 50mm f/1.4 lenses and determined an adjustment required for one of them, it would be applied to both. Now, most people don't have multiple copies of a lens so this is only a problem for a few of us (I currently have two 300mm f/4 and two 28-135s... have had multiple copies of other lenses in the past). What's a correct adjustment for one lens might be totally wrong for another copy of the same lens model. It also wasn't ideal for zooms, since only a single adjustment was possible. You often had to compromise with zooms.

Newer Canon DSLRs really improved on this. The ones with MFA now can be programmed with fine-tuning adjustments for up to 40 lenses, have means of making two adjustments with zoom lenses, and the adjustments are lens-specific (MFA refers to the lens' serial number, to distinguish between and allow different adjustments for multiple copies of any particular lens model).

FoCal recommends that the target be set up at a distance that's 50X the lens focal length.... so for a 50mm lens it's roughly eight feet away (50 x 50 = 2500 and there are just over 25mm per inch, so call it 100 inches, which is 8.3 feet). The problem comes when fine tuning large telephotos. Based on that recommendation, a 400mm lens would require the target be set up 20,000 millimeters... or approx. 800 inches... or roughly 66 feet away! If that's a problem, it may be possible to use 25X the lens focal length... but still requires a lot of space, with the target over 30 feet away.

You can fine tune with MFA without a software like FoCal. What Canon recommends doing is simply focus on a target at a moderate distance using the in-viewfinder focusing array... then switch to Live View and focus on the same target. If the two don't agree.. if the lens changes focus at all with Live View... then there is some adjustment needed. You can experiment with + or - adjustments until repeated testing shows no difference between "normal" and Live View focusing. This is because Live View uses the image sensor itself to focus... so needs no MFA at all. If the "normal" focus agrees with that, it's accurate too.

Or, you could just switch to a mirrorless camera and never have to worry about any of this. That's because mirrorless camera's focus using sensors embedded directly in the imaging sensor itself (just like Live View), so there's never any need to adjust them at all.
FoCal does multiple tests for focus accuracy, then... (show quote)


Just to add - the FoCal SW gives you a recommended distance as soon as you mount the lens and it varies from 50x focal length to 20x for long lenses - I used a bit over 30’ for my 400mm with a 1.4x extender (560mm). Note that there’s nothing “magic” about the recommended distance - you can cal the lens at any distance (typically something close to the range you normally shoot at is optimum) and you can do it outdoors using a laptop.

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May 9, 2019 17:20:49   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
Einreb92 wrote:
I think I could get sharper images, from my rig and am contemplating trying FoCal. I know some of you have and use this, to further dial-in your glass. Can anyone speak to how and if this can be accomplished with a telephoto lens? I have read the information that I can find on their website, but am looking for more "real-world" feedback. I have already sent lens and body to the maker of the lens, but am trying to squeeze a bit more out of my combo. If you are one who feels like it is a waste of time and who would chastise the use of anything but a Nikon lens on my Nikon, please do not bother. Thanks!
I think I could get sharper images, from my rig an... (show quote)


Regardless what others will write here, here are the facts.
1. you can only adjust your lens for one distance, if you are going to adjust your lens, adjust it for a medium distance. Remember, once you have calibrated your lens, it is only good for that distance. PERIOD, end of story.
2. If you take most of your photo's with a telephoto at maximum distance, you will not need to calibrate your lens.
3. If you usually stop down your lens 3 or 4 stops, you will not need to calibrate your lens.
4. I have owned more than 20 Nikon AF lenses and enlarge my show prints to 20X30, I have NEVER had to calibrate ONE of my lenses to get perfect focus.

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May 9, 2019 18:21:15   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
billnikon wrote:
Regardless what others will write here, here are the facts.
1. you can only adjust your lens for one distance, if you are going to adjust your lens, adjust it for a medium distance. Remember, once you have calibrated your lens, it is only good for that distance. PERIOD, end of story.
2. If you take most of your photo's with a telephoto at maximum distance, you will not need to calibrate your lens.
3. If you usually stop down your lens 3 or 4 stops, you will not need to calibrate your lens.
4. I have owned more than 20 Nikon AF lenses and enlarge my show prints to 20X30, I have NEVER had to calibrate ONE of my lenses to get perfect focus.
Regardless what others will write here, here are t... (show quote)


Bill, the OP specifically asked us not to indulge in this argument (he’s probably seen it ad nauseum before), but since you’ve initiated the discussion, let me make a couple of corrections:

1) while you can only cal at one distance, that doesn’t mean it isn’t very close at other distances. Despite your assertion, I have actually tested this and you can see the results in the link I posted above. If you have actually tested and can prove differently, please post the evidence.

2) contrary to your assertion, because long teles have a narrow DOF, you cannot accurately make this blanket statement. For example, a 600mm lens on a FF at 50’ distance at f5.6 has a DOF of just 0.69 feet (~8””), so accurate focus is critical

3) I agree with you on this - if you shoot stopped way down, the increased DOF may “hide” AF errors

4) since you have never calibrated them, you have no idea as to whether they were focusing accurately and could have been improved or not.

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May 9, 2019 19:40:50   #
alx Loc: NJ
 
I'm going to throw in a quick thought here.

I've looked at a number of your posted images here (I won't claim to have looked at every one) and quite a good number are very sharp. Unfortunately the ones I find sharpest didn't have EXIF data that included shooting data to let me know the circumstances.

The ones I found less sharp came from your series "Another life bird. Whoopee!". Those had EXIF data indicating you used your Tamron 150-600 at long range and less than superfast shutter speeds. Note that this is not a criticism of the lens.

What might be worth considering is that a tree is not a STATIC object, nor is a bird feeder. While we might tend to consider them fixed in that their location doesn't change, they are not RIGID or NON-MOVING. They are both subject to motion caused by the wind or even light breezes. Even the birds are not stationary under those circumstances as their muscles react to the slightest motion of what they are standing on.

At extreme ranges, these motions can be picked up and magnified by the camera which gets blamed for the apparent lack of sharpness when a higher shutter speed might have frozen the action.

Extreme telephoto is very demanding of everything in what I'll call the chain of light.

Just a thought.

alx

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May 9, 2019 22:17:55   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
TriX wrote:
Bill, the OP specifically asked us not to indulge in this argument (he’s probably seen it ad nauseum before), but since you’ve initiated the discussion, let me make a couple of corrections:

1) while you can only cal at one distance, that doesn’t mean it isn’t very close at other distances. Despite your assertion, I have actually tested this and you can see the results in the link I posted above. If you have actually tested and can prove differently, please post the evidence.

2) contrary to your assertion, because long teles have a narrow DOF, you cannot accurately make this blanket statement. For example, a 600mm lens on a FF at 50’ distance at f5.6 has a DOF of just 0.69 feet (~8””), so accurate focus is critical

3) I agree with you on this - if you shoot stopped way down, the increased DOF may “hide” AF errors

4) since you have never calibrated them, you have no idea as to whether they were focusing accurately and could have been improved or not.
Bill, the OP specifically asked us not to indulge ... (show quote)



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May 10, 2019 16:33:35   #
Einreb92 Loc: Philadelphia
 
MW wrote:
By “telephoto” I assume you mean “zoom”. (A single focal length telephoto such as 200m is treated like any
other single FL lens.)
So, a zoom does present a problem. What I did was did was run the calibration three times - at minimum zoom, max zoom and mid point and record the results. Then I picked calibration adjustment that minimized the overall error -ie a compromise solution. An alternative solution in certain cases would be if there is a a particular focal length you use most of the time. Keep depth of field in mind - if you routinely stop down quite a bit the DOF may compensate for the focus error
By “telephoto” I assume you mean “zoom”. (A singl... (show quote)


Thanks, MW. Yes: 150-600 zoom. I think your first approach seems like a good way to begin the process.

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May 10, 2019 17:09:44   #
LFingar Loc: Claverack, NY
 
Einreb92 wrote:
Thanks, MW. Yes: 150-600 zoom. I think your first approach seems like a good way to begin the process.


Can you post a photo or two that you are unhappy with? Your problem could be something you are not noticing or are interpreting wrong. For something as subjective as IQ can be, it never hurts to get other opinions. If you do, be sure to check "Store Original".

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