High ISO fears
Apr 15, 2019 06:32:39 #
catchlight..
Loc: Wisconsin USA- Halden Norway
I use Canon gear proffesinally (two 5D mk 4's) and have the best glass, including the 11-24 F/4L and 200 F 2.0.L... I spend money where it counts, but...
I always feared exceeding 1600 ISO with the Canons indoor. That said... I started to use my Fugi X100F and it seems perfect for indoor shooting.
The noise level is tolerable with little editing. I attached a recent indoor event shot at the Amelia Island Concours, shot at ISO 3200.
I couldn't be more pleased. the versatility and ability to fill flash with the leaf shutter has me feeling so good... and money isn't always the way to get stunning photos, especially when I was tempted to purchase a high end Sony at more that three times the cost of the fugi.
Sensor technology has come a long way for sure.
I always feared exceeding 1600 ISO with the Canons indoor. That said... I started to use my Fugi X100F and it seems perfect for indoor shooting.
The noise level is tolerable with little editing. I attached a recent indoor event shot at the Amelia Island Concours, shot at ISO 3200.
I couldn't be more pleased. the versatility and ability to fill flash with the leaf shutter has me feeling so good... and money isn't always the way to get stunning photos, especially when I was tempted to purchase a high end Sony at more that three times the cost of the fugi.
Sensor technology has come a long way for sure.
Apr 15, 2019 07:10:19 #
The image looks very good. I am sure you could have done this also with your Canons.
Noise tends not to be that bad when the subject is well illuminated. It is the shadows what causes issues.
Noise tends not to be that bad when the subject is well illuminated. It is the shadows what causes issues.
Apr 15, 2019 07:31:12 #
Yes, sensor tech has come a long way. here is a shot I recently took at an ISO of 10000, and I thing the noise is perfectly acceptable! D500
Apr 15, 2019 13:01:16 #
I shoot an open mic nigh every Thursday. The lighting in there is horrible. I typically soot at iso 10000 and f3.5 at around 1/50 noisy but can be toned down in post. Acceptable for the face book page.
Common Man open Mike Night - Thursdays
Bob
Common Man open Mike Night - Thursdays
Bob
Apr 16, 2019 07:21:49 #
I set the ISO limit on my 5D Mark IV to 12,800. I feel that I get satisfactory images up to that level of ISO.
Apr 16, 2019 08:31:23 #
Nice shot of that blue Bugati. As I'm sure you know the only good way to determine noise levels at various ISO settings is to experiment
Apr 16, 2019 10:06:36 #
Apr 16, 2019 10:18:57 #
catchlight.. wrote:
I use Canon gear proffesinally (two 5D mk 4's) and... (show quote)
You might want to run a test of high ISO performance (in raw mode) on the 5D IV. Camera on tripod, constant illumination of a static scene indoors that includes a gray scale and color patches plus lots of curio objects and a human face if someone will cooperate. Meter an exposure target, make an exposure, change ISO, meter, expose... Go at one stop intervals from ISO 100 to ISO 25,600. Examine images at 100% in Photoshop or whatever software you use. Without any post-processing, pick the one you like where you can get the best compromise of noise, color depth, and speed... Call it your high quality limit. Then experiment with noise reduction until you find the highest speed at which noise reduction does not destroy an unacceptable measure of detail. Call that your emergency limit.
My personal guidelines for the current state of the art 20 to 24 MP cameras:
Full frame — about 12,800
APS-C/DX — about 6400
Micro 4/3 — about 3200
Your preferences may vary considerably.
DPreview.com camera reviews usually include a scene such as this, standardized across many tests of many cameras. You can use the drop-down menus to pick cameras, JPEG or raw, and ISO, then compare at 100% across any part of the test target.
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-5d-mark-iv/9
Apr 16, 2019 12:07:03 #
nimbushopper wrote:
Yes, sensor tech has come a long way. here is a shot I recently took at an ISO of 10000, and I thing the noise is perfectly acceptable! D500
I just picked up a D500 and I'm eager to test the ISO limits.
Apr 16, 2019 12:16:38 #
SuperflyTNT wrote:
I just picked up a D500 and I'm eager to test the ISO limits.
You can look up the review at dpreview.com and use their interactive test chart to see what they found. Then you can compare it with other models and pixel peep till your eyes pop out. Use the drop-down menus to switch ISOs, JPEG vs Raw, and camera model test samples.
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d500/7
Apr 16, 2019 13:12:37 #
If your using flash no worries about high ISO. One thing we forget and I stress, I would and do up my ISO when necessary to get a Properly Exposed Photo. Where most folks run into trouble is lowering the exposure, through exposure compensation and other means to save on the affects of a Higher ISO. Properly exposed photographs do not show the evils of higher ISO compared to under exposed photos. Do a little experimenting with properly exposed photos using higher ISO and see for yourself.. And yes, blow up to 100% and pixel peep.......
Apr 16, 2019 13:27:02 #
burkphoto wrote:
You can look up the review at dpreview.com and use their interactive test chart to see what they found. Then you can compare it with other models and pixel peep till your eyes pop out. Use the drop-down menus to switch ISOs, JPEG vs Raw, and camera model test samples.
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d500/7
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d500/7
Good Stuff! After doing the test I found that my camera was much better at high ISO than I thought.
Apr 16, 2019 14:09:32 #
Sunday night I was at a local club which was poorly lit. I was shooting a Lumix DMC-ZS100 (1" sensor and poor flash). I went up to ISO 12800 with results OK for snapshooting, ISO 1600 for realy good results.
Apr 16, 2019 16:15:57 #
amfoto1
Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
You really should try your 5DIV at higher ISOs... maybe with a touch of noise reduction in post-processing.
Part of the reason you "fear" high ISO is probably because you are viewing your image "at 100%" or higher on your computer monitor.
If you do that with the 24MP Fuji's APS-C images, on a typical modern monitor it's like looking at a 5 foot wide print from about 18 or 20 inches away. If you view the 30MP 5DIV's full frame images at similar 100% magnification, that's even larger.... like looking at a 5.5 foot by 3.75 foot tall print the same way.
In either case, by the time you reduce the image size for actual use.... especially for use on at Internet resolutions such as your example... any minor noise you might see has largely disappeared.
Below image was shot with Canon 7D Mark II (APS-C, 20MP) at ISO 16000.... Yes, that's ISO sixteen thousand, not sixteen hundred that you consider your highest usable ISO.
And, sure, this image does have noise, as you can see in the much enlarged detail on the right.
For the above image there was no noise reduction other than the default setting when I converted the RAW files to JPEG in Lightroom, I think it's pretty well controlled for such an extreme ISO. Normally with ultra high ISO such as this I apply some NR software in Photoshop. I like and usually use a Noiseware plug-in. I didn't in this case.... This image was deliberately done as an ultra high ISO test and I wanted it to be a "worst case". In my opinion, while not "noise free" at high magnifications, it's very usable.... certainly in small size and Internet resolutions like the above left example. It could be made even more usable... for a modest size print, for example.... with some extra NR work like I usually do.
For the above image and all higher ISOs I'm very careful to avoid under-exposure. Any time you have to boost exposure in post-processing, that will greatly increase the appearance of noise in the image, too. The only editing I did to the RAW file above was a slight boost in contrast and an adjustment of the black point. Higher ISOs also cause reduced dynamic range, but that's pretty easily adjusted.... so long as the image isn't under-exposed. In fact, sometimes it works well to slightly over-expose (+1/3 or +2/3 stop), then "pull" exposure back down in post-processing.
On all cameras I stay within the "native range" and avoid the "expanded" ISOs, because are actually shot at a lower ISO and then digitally "amped up" to give a higher "faux" ISO. On my 7D Mark IIs, the expanded ISOs start above 16000. Your 5D Mark IV's sensor is less crowded, with larger pixels and should be able to do even better within its native range of 100 to 32000 (its expanded ISOs are 50, 51200 and 102400).
Maybe part of my "tolerance" for noise is because I shot film for 25+ years.... where anything over ISO 100 started to show grain. Most of what I shot was ISO 25, 32, 50 or 100. I used some ISO 200 slide film. Any higher than that... 400 or occasionally pushed to 800... I either shot in B&W (and tolerated the graininess) or with color neg film. In comparison to film the high ISO capability of today's digital is amazing and just keeps getting better with each new generation. And I think many people who complain are very overly critical of their images, viewing them at sizes far larger than their intended use and far more magnified than anyone else will ever see the images.
Part of the reason you "fear" high ISO is probably because you are viewing your image "at 100%" or higher on your computer monitor.
If you do that with the 24MP Fuji's APS-C images, on a typical modern monitor it's like looking at a 5 foot wide print from about 18 or 20 inches away. If you view the 30MP 5DIV's full frame images at similar 100% magnification, that's even larger.... like looking at a 5.5 foot by 3.75 foot tall print the same way.
In either case, by the time you reduce the image size for actual use.... especially for use on at Internet resolutions such as your example... any minor noise you might see has largely disappeared.
Below image was shot with Canon 7D Mark II (APS-C, 20MP) at ISO 16000.... Yes, that's ISO sixteen thousand, not sixteen hundred that you consider your highest usable ISO.
And, sure, this image does have noise, as you can see in the much enlarged detail on the right.
For the above image there was no noise reduction other than the default setting when I converted the RAW files to JPEG in Lightroom, I think it's pretty well controlled for such an extreme ISO. Normally with ultra high ISO such as this I apply some NR software in Photoshop. I like and usually use a Noiseware plug-in. I didn't in this case.... This image was deliberately done as an ultra high ISO test and I wanted it to be a "worst case". In my opinion, while not "noise free" at high magnifications, it's very usable.... certainly in small size and Internet resolutions like the above left example. It could be made even more usable... for a modest size print, for example.... with some extra NR work like I usually do.
For the above image and all higher ISOs I'm very careful to avoid under-exposure. Any time you have to boost exposure in post-processing, that will greatly increase the appearance of noise in the image, too. The only editing I did to the RAW file above was a slight boost in contrast and an adjustment of the black point. Higher ISOs also cause reduced dynamic range, but that's pretty easily adjusted.... so long as the image isn't under-exposed. In fact, sometimes it works well to slightly over-expose (+1/3 or +2/3 stop), then "pull" exposure back down in post-processing.
On all cameras I stay within the "native range" and avoid the "expanded" ISOs, because are actually shot at a lower ISO and then digitally "amped up" to give a higher "faux" ISO. On my 7D Mark IIs, the expanded ISOs start above 16000. Your 5D Mark IV's sensor is less crowded, with larger pixels and should be able to do even better within its native range of 100 to 32000 (its expanded ISOs are 50, 51200 and 102400).
Maybe part of my "tolerance" for noise is because I shot film for 25+ years.... where anything over ISO 100 started to show grain. Most of what I shot was ISO 25, 32, 50 or 100. I used some ISO 200 slide film. Any higher than that... 400 or occasionally pushed to 800... I either shot in B&W (and tolerated the graininess) or with color neg film. In comparison to film the high ISO capability of today's digital is amazing and just keeps getting better with each new generation. And I think many people who complain are very overly critical of their images, viewing them at sizes far larger than their intended use and far more magnified than anyone else will ever see the images.
Apr 16, 2019 20:48:24 #
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