akamerica

My second Epson P600 in 2 years did not like the replacement Epson ink ctg that clogged the print head. All the head cleanings and tech support could not put it together again. Two strikes and Epson is out at home.

Now I have the Canon Pixma PRO-100 and would like your comments, lessons learned, and suggestions for obtaining the best practices to print what I see on my monitor after Adobe Camera Raw post processing. I have Adobe RGB (1998) on my D850, Samsung 40" TV 1090p (as a monitor - bigger is so much better) and of course on the PRO-100.

My first print on the PRO-100 was duller than the more vibrant rendering on the monitor. Asking Canon for the "school solution" to gain this color match the tech said that the print will never match the backlit monitor's brightness. Really?

And, I will admit that there is something about this color match business that curls my brain.

Is there a way to adjust the print brightness on the PRO-100s output?
Do we match the monitor to the printer or the printer to the monitor?
With all devices using Adobe RGB should not all the colors and brightness etc be the same?
Should the PRO-100 control colors or the Adobe control colors when printing?
What is the difference between ICM, and a color profile and should they be disabled asks the PRO-100?
Always use perceptual?
And yes I always select the Media Type (photo paper)

Sorry too many questions.

Art

mizzee Loc: Boston,Ma

Canon Print Studio Pro! I have the same printer and had the same problem, everything was sort of dingy. I called Canon and was fortunate to get Charles as my helper. I had seen a mention of Print Studio Pro here on UHH. When I mentioned it to Charles, he told me it would solve my problem, and it did. He even dictated instructions after he walked my through the print process.

This is an app that you down load and it becomes a plug in extra accessed from the file in Lightroom. What it does is it allows you to print a contact sheet-like print for color and another for contrast. You pick which one you like from each and enter the values and then print your image. Problem solved!

russjc001 Loc: South Carolina

I had a similar problem with my pro-100. I have my monitor calibrated by an xrite iprofile pro. I also used the paper profile for the output printing in Lightroom. The prints did not come out right....too dark or over saturated. I ended up letting the printer set the color profile in Lightroom. One other thing, you need to lower the brightness of your monitor - my Dell is set to about 13. I have not tried the canon studio pro approach but my prints come out well.

akamerica

Roger that. My installation all the drivers and software using only the latest versions for the web page did not successfully install Print Studio Pro. My second attempt resulted in the error that my version of Lightroom was not supported. It is the latest version so off to the tech boys and girls for a cure.

Thank you for the reply.
Art

Tim Stapp Loc: Mid Mitten

Same issue. Just haven't made the call (day job gets in the way). Let us know what you learn.

akamerica

Canon Tech support was able to take an indirect route to install the plug in. Joy. And it contains options to add brightness and contrast to the picture for a better monitor to printer WYSIWYG result.

TomV Loc: Annapolis, Maryland

Bigger is better for watching TV. I do not see an advantage to using it for editing unless you have some distance from the panel otherwise you will have pixelation issues.

How do you have your TV video setup? Is there some neutral setting you can set it to, as opposed to something like Sports, Cinema, Vivid? Can you set the Color Temp? What is the color gamut of your TV?

You do need to reduce the intensity to come close to matching the printer. The Canon help was correct about matching the backlit screen to the reflected light print. An important parameter in the color matching is the use of proper lighting for viewing. The monitor does not rely on the viewing lighting whereas the print is totally reliant on it.

I go with the assumption that the printer is the standard and the software/calibrated monitor need to match it.

There is a section in this forum that addresses printing, in particular the Pro-100. Most users use monitors not TVs.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

You should profile your display with an XRite tool. If you don't have a display that uses a programmable LUT, then you can use a Datacolor profiling tool.

The tech was 100% correct. A display will look different than a print, especially if you are looking at a display that has not been profiled. Most displays come set to 120 cd/m² which is too bright. A better setting is 80 cd/m² and closer to what your printer can manage.

You should always match the display to a standard, then match the printer/ink/paper to a standard - the key is to use a recognized standard, which is what using printer/display/camera profiling tools do - they adjust everything to a known industry standard.

Generally speaking, if you use a Canon printer, paper and ink, you will be very close to optimal using the built-in paper settings for the paper you are using.

AdobeRGB is a color space with a specific gamut. Your printer likely handles most of the AdobeRGB color space, but not all. If you have a 10 bit graphics card and a display capable of 10 bit (30 bit color), you can count on the display showing 98% to 99% AdobeRGB color space. There will be small differences in gamut, resulting in gamut mismatches - So no, all devices using Adobe RGB color space will not produce identical results, and then there is the reflective vs translucent thing, as well as the paper you use - some papers have very wide gamut, others do not.

If your printer can print 16 bit tiff files WITHOUT first converting them to 8 bit use that option if you output AdobeRGB. Otherwise, use 8 bit sRGB and convert your images to sRGB jpeg before you print.

Make sure you select the correct rendering intent. The rendering intent determines how out of gamut color is handled.

If you use Canon paper and ink, let the printer control color. If using a paper/printer/ink profile, turn that off.

I use a pair of Dell 24" 10 bit displays, a Quadro 2000 graphics card, and profile my displays with an Xrite i1 Display Pro, which is the least expensive device that will program the color in the display directly.

Bipod

Nothing in photography is WYSIWYG. What you see is determined by how you
look at the image file (or negative). So one has to know the limitations of each display
device or print medium. The final image is what matters, but how you get there is
anything but straightforward.

Display an image file on one device or print it in one medium, then display it on
a different device or print it in another medium, and it will look different.

Sorry if this wasn't the answer you were hoping to hear.

morkie1891

Watch Jtoolman - Jose Rodriguez- videos on utube. He has 100s if videos on canon printers. It is usually only a matter calibrating the monitor and workflow

ggab Loc: ?

There is no "easy button" to printing color.

When you buy inks and paper, you hope the profiles that are supplied are close to matching what you bought.

With inkjet, this is less important, however you hope the calibration of the printer is accurate.
You hope the calibration of the printer is to a standard you can access.
The lighting you look at your print in affects the way the print looks.

Regarding your monitor:
1- You hope the output is stable. This is not always the case
2- You have to profile the monitor to a standard

Regarding your Workflow:
1- Your printing software and workflow need to know the profiles of your Monitor, Printer, Camera and what standard you calibrate to.
2- You need a method of looking at your prints and see how close the match to the standard, what is the Delta E.

The monitor and camera will have a greater gamut then the printer. In all cases, the printer is the weak link. This can be compensated for, however there is not an "easy button"! I wish it was.

George

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

Ex-lab guy here...

Do you have a monitor actually capable of displaying the FULL Adobe RGB (1998) color gamut?

Is your monitor calibrated with a hardware and software kit that VERIFIES the full Adobe RGB (1998) color gamut is being displayed? Do you recalibrate at least monthly, using the same kit?

Are your monitor aims set to Gamma 2.2, Black Point 0.5, White Point 80-120 cd/m^2, Color temperature 5800K?

Is your print viewing box equipped with a 5000K 91+CRI lamp adjusted with distance to provide a gray card reading of EV 9.5 at ISO 100?

Is the surrounding area in your color adjustment environment predominantly medium gray? (No bright colors on your computer desktop or walls and table or desk in your field of vision)

Is the ambient room light relatively dim? A single 60-Watt equivalent 5000K LED or CFL bounced off the ceiling from behind the monitor is usually enough.

Are you configuring your color management workflow correctly? In other words:

> Custom/Preset/Manual White Balance performed using a suitable target or ExpoDisc or ColorChecker Passport

> Profile for JPEGs processed in camera set to sRGB UNLESS your files are going to a graphic arts printer or ad agency that wants Adobe RGB, OR your monitor can display 100% Adobe RGB

> Custom monitor profile (see above) installed and activated in the operating system?

> Post Processing software capable of 16-bit editing and printing (i.e.; NOT Photoshop Elements) (Lightroom is a top option for this)

> Printer using Canon inks and paper (at least to start)?

> Printer using Canon's Print Studio Pro software?

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/support/details/professional-large-format-printers/professional-inkjet-printers/pro-100?subtab=downloads-software

You need to experiment with having your software do the color conversion, and Canon's software doing the color conversion. DO NOT ENABLE BOTH simultaneously. If you print with the standard driver, your software can probably do the conversion better. If you use Print Studio Pro, it can do the conversion much better.

For more information, head on over to the archives in the Printers and Color Printing Forum:

https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/s-120-1.html

It's not a very active forum, but we have answered many of your questions there, previously.

In the event your monitor cannot display full Adobe RGB, don't waste your time with Adobe RGB. It has probably ruined more good photos than sRGB ever will. It's a wide gamut space made for professionals who have all the right goodies to deal with it.

Most TVs cannot display the full Adobe RGB gamut. They are usually calibrated to a broadcast standard known as REC 709. They are usually MUCH brighter and more contrasty than monitors designed for photo editing. That makes it all the more critical to calibrate and custom profile them with a colorimeter and software kit.

The Canon guy was technically correct, printing is a subtractive color process (removing color from the white light reflected off a paper), while monitors use an additive color process (R+B+G add up to white light). HOWEVER, WYSIWYG can be achieved well enough for professional results.

I've given you the formula we used in a pro portrait lab (now defunct Herff Jones Photography Charlotte) over a decade ago. We made several million school portraits with it every year, along with lots of pro wedding and family and event prints. The color correction and printing areas were my domain. We had nine monitors matched to each other and the output of our master printer. When we adjusted images, the prints coming off our Noritsu mini-labs matched our Epson 9xxx printers and the monitors in Color Correction. (We used a simulation profile to "dumb down" the Epson to the look of the Noritsu... Otherwise, the Noritsu would appear less vibrant. Photo paper has a narrower color gamut than high end inkjet.)

via the lens Loc: Northern California, near Yosemite NP

On printing. Most programs, I think, will allow you to do a print proof. LR does this. You open the image, click on the "proof" button at the bottom and then select your paper choice. In LR a button will pop up asking if you want to create a proof and you say yes if you do. Then you can fiddle with the proof copy using the original as a base until you get the proof the way you want it to look to print on that specific paper. You should also check the color gamut of the image unless it is all mid-tone brown and greens. Then you print from the proof.

sirlensalot Loc: Arizona

Going through the same issue and for me it is requiring a very big learning process as I send to labs fro printing. I may be changing that in the future. Short story - get a color calibrator. They run a very wide spectrum for cost - less than $100 to thousands. Assuming you have a newer monitor, the color calibrator is a must and a very simple process.
Printing from LR requires more steps than I realized to avoid darker and duller prints than is exhibited on the monitor, but I would not call myself proficient in LR, more of an intermediate user. Avoid the paper profile is you are sending out to labs, make sure you save in sRGB for exports. Unless someone has a better suggestion. soft-proofing helps. Still learning so these are what is working better for me so far. Probably not the best color calibrator, but I purchased a refurbished ColorMonki Smile on ebay for less than $70 with a good return policy and a warranty. Realize also calibrating a monitor is not a one time fix. It has been suggest doing at about once a month. Have only done it once and the first time was minimal - software download to calibration was around 10-12 minutes. It did change the colors on my monitor - less sharp and a bit (but not much) darker. Have yet to finish first batch for lab.

via the lens Loc: Northern California, near Yosemite NP

In LR, use the soft proof feature for prints and there is also an option to set the printer to print brighter at the bottom of the print panel, as well as to increase contrast, but neither of the two options allows you to determine how bright or how contrasty something will be. Use 4 x 6 paper for proof prints. I print all of my own work and I have had no problem with printing at all. I have a mac, a calibrated screen, and proof print as needed.