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Baiting Birds Of Prey, To Photograph?
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Aug 18, 2018 10:44:44   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Gene51 wrote:
You fail to understand the point and the nature of my objection to baiting. I don't condone baiting - never have and never will. I do keep a bird feeder but only stock it during the winter - this is not baiting. It provides support to small-non-migratory birds during the colder months when it is hard for them to find food. But it is a practice that has not been shown to harm local birds, and it persists. I also care for community cats - and though birders really frown on cats in close proximity to birds at a feeder - I lose on average one bird a year to a cat kill.

But I digress. There is no hypocrisy in feeding local birds who have already become accustomed to eating at feeders - which is very different from baiting or luring. Feeding raptors and migratory birds is a completely different issue. They are more sensitive, vulnerable and in many cases protected by federal and local laws. Among the things that can happen when you lure a bird with either food or a recorded call is disruption, confusion, extra energy expended, stressful to the birds, stupid humans luring prey birds with cat toys and other non-food items, prey birds can be lured to places outside their normal habitat that are dangerous and they are unprepared to deal with like busy highways, airports, etc. Yes, killing the birds is illegal, but steps that can lead to the untimely death of a bird are definitely immoral and unethical.

I don't understand your position on something that is common sense and so easy to understand. Never mind, as I was writing the previous sentence it all became very clear . . .

The nice thing is that people who share your thoughts are in the minority - and public shaming has proven over and over to be a very powerful deterrent. Seems like you are on the wrong side of this argument. . . Just sayin'
You fail to understand the point and the nature of... (show quote)


Those small birds survived for centuries without your bird feeder in the winter. Now they depend on it and will perish when you cease feeding them. That is evil.

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Aug 18, 2018 11:15:25   #
DinoC
 
somewhat related, is it ethical to take zoo photos?

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Aug 18, 2018 11:29:00   #
MadMikeOne Loc: So. NJ Shore - a bit west of Atlantic City
 
Architect1776 wrote:
All your backyard feeders are bait that disrupt the natural habitat.this includes hummingbird feeders.
So for all you hypocrites and waco environmentalists follow your preaching and quit disturbing the natural feeding habits of all birds and other wildlife.
You can't pick and choose baiting is unethical and wrong to the natural habitat for all species or it isn't.
But as long as you are doing it it is OK, just don't let others do it or your wrath will come down on them with a vengeance.
All your backyard feeders are bait that disrupt th... (show quote)


Oh really? For your information, I do not now, nor have I EVER had any bird feeders or any other type of animal/bird feeder on any of my properties.

Your response just proves what assumptions do, except you are the one who made an A**S of only himself. You need to think before you type.

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Aug 18, 2018 11:29:46   #
Feiertag Loc: British Columbia, Canada
 
DinoC wrote:
somewhat related, is it ethical to take zoo photos?


I have not taken one photo of a caged animal. What's the point? No challenge, what-so-ever.

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Aug 18, 2018 11:36:59   #
Glenn Harve
 
The infectious disease argument is extremely valid.

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Aug 18, 2018 11:43:18   #
Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast
 
Feiertag wrote:
I have not taken one photo of a caged animal. What's the point? No challenge, what-so-ever.


I have Harold, not disagreeing but the last time I saw a Whooping Crane, it was entirely too far away to take a picture, so I took one at the Homosassa Wildlife park, a State Park, and same with photos at San Diego Zoo, some pretty neat animals to show to the kids...but you're correct, the challenge is taking them in the wild....cheers

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Aug 18, 2018 11:44:36   #
Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast
 
Architect1776 wrote:
Those small birds survived for centuries without your bird feeder in the winter. Now they depend on it and will perish when you cease feeding them. That is evil.


Perish? Nah, they'll just go to my neighbors feeder, if not his, then his neighbor.....

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Aug 18, 2018 11:44:42   #
Muddyvalley Loc: McMinnville, Oregon
 
I see nothing wrong with baiting birds at feeders or raptors with fish or mice to get a photo, but I also think it should be mentioned that it was done. It's just like taking photographs of animals in a zoo or park where they are used to people. It's so much easier than out in the wild.
Still plenty of skill involved, but not the same.

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Aug 18, 2018 11:51:59   #
BebuLamar
 
Although I don't take pictures of animals in such a way. My animal pictures are those that I just see and take a pictures. I don't feel comfortable with baiting but I don't want to say that it's bad. But if I look at a photos I would judge it by the photo alone and not how it was made. I do not judge a photo by the skill of the photographer.

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Aug 18, 2018 11:59:50   #
safeman
 
I feel like I'm sitting in a Philosophy 1A class. Is it ethical to bait animals to hunt them; to photograph them; to sit on the back porch and watch hummingbirds come to the feeder. How about feeding deer or elk during a particularly harsh winter in Jackson Hole? Just like here most responses would have been emotional and sometimes personal. I think the question to be considered is what is, or should be, the relationship between humans and wild animals. Baiting those owls produced pictures of a bird most people would never see. Does that have more value compared to altering the owl's behavior? These are the questions you should be asking and answering. You can also take ethical approach develop your belief based on one of many sound philosophical principals. Perhaps if you are Christian or Jew you would like to start with a ready made premise: After God made man He said: "Let them have dominion over the fish of the seas, the birds of the air, the tame animals, all the wild animals and all the creatures that crawl on the earth." There are so many ways to approach any question that I fail to see why these discussions always degenerate to emotional appeals and ad hominin attacks.

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Aug 18, 2018 12:04:10   #
Glenn Harve
 
If the "domestic" mouse was carrying a disease that could cause havoc in the wild, how would people armed with that knowledge feel about it? Such things can and do happen. For bait fish and fisheries it has been a major issue. THIS IS THE REAL ISSUE.

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Aug 18, 2018 12:23:36   #
Feiertag Loc: British Columbia, Canada
 
BebuLamar wrote:
Although I don't take pictures of animals in such a way. My animal pictures are those that I just see and take a pictures. I don't feel comfortable with baiting but I don't want to say that it's bad. But if I look at a photos I would judge it by the photo alone and not how it was made. I do not judge a photo by the skill of the photographer.


That reminds me of a funny story from one of my colleagues regarding our annual fly fishing trips. He said, "Wouldn't it be cheaper just to buy the fish at the grocery store rather than spending the money on all the equipment, etc?" Silly man, of course it would be but where is the fun and challenge?

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Aug 18, 2018 12:24:22   #
zzzynick Loc: Colorado
 
Absolutely not. Linda from Maine your argument that feeders are the same is bullshit. I put out food in feeders during the winter when seeds and bugs are hard to find. Birds of prey do not need your help, their food supply remains constant. The only reason to bait birds is for your own selfish gains.

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Aug 18, 2018 12:52:38   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
MadMikeOne wrote:
Oh really? For your information, I do not now, nor have I EVER had any bird feeders or any other type of animal/bird feeder on any of my properties.

Your response just proves what assumptions do, except you are the one who made an A**S of only himself. You need to think before you type.


I do keep a bird feeder but only stock it during the winter - this is not baiting. It provides support to small-non-migratory birds during the colder months when it is hard for them to find food.
You failed to read your first paragraph that you feed birds in the winter. That is a bird feeder idiot.

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Aug 18, 2018 14:02:36   #
tims.ak Loc: Butte, Alaska
 
martinfisherphoto wrote:
I originally got this ideal by watching National GEO bait Osprey down here on Lake Istokapoga four or five years ago. It involved two boats, as one would throw out fish under a circling Osprey and they other boat would move in for the photographs.. I am using Live bait, one the prey would find on the property I'm shooting from. My set up was over a two day span and involved four mice, not something that will render the owls forever hopeless and have to depended on man to feed. I have countless hours involved just to learn the habits and setting up the captures. I've even build owl boxes for the owls to use next breeding season so I may photograph the comings and goings of the parents feeding the young. I spend lots of time and energy fine tuning my craft. Next time you take your trash out just remember it ends up at the county landfill which is the Main feeding grounds of our Bald Eagles. I knew when posting my photographs it would rile a few feathers. Next time you photograph a bird that visits a feeder, give that a little more tight.. That food is not locally grown and is prepared for the animal.
You may as well mention the post: https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-548420-1.html
I originally got this ideal by watching National G... (show quote)


Well said. I've taken some amazing footage around the processing plants in Dutch Harbor/ Unalaska. Definitely not natural. And there are hundreds of Eagles in the dump there. There are Eagles feeding at every dock and fish plant in Alaska. And every stream feeding hatcheries used to breed fish. Wonder how many of those pictures have been shared and entered in contests? And all of them are baited by the leavings of humans. None of it natural. The birds wouldn't be there if not for humans working there. If you don't like pictures of baited Birds of Prey dont look at them.

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