Camera black/white or post processing conversion: The other day I attended a county fair judging in which the judge stated that in order to get a really good black and white you had to...

Leon S Loc: Minnesota

The other day I attended a county fair judging in which the judge stated that in order to get a really good black and white you had to set the camera for black/white not convert it in software set up. Could anyone care to give comment to this statement. I personally don't agree but I don't normally shoot or print black and white. Thanks for any comments.

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

Leon S wrote:

The other day I attended a county fair judging in which the judge stated that in order to get a really good black and white you had to set the camera for black/white not convert it in software set up. Could anyone care to give comment to this statement. I personally don't agree but I don't normally shoot or print black and white. Thanks for any comments.

I don't think you will find many people here agreeing with that advice. The "judge" is displaying one of the reasons why I don't enter photo contests. I wonder if he was judging the cows, and the flowers, and the kids' fingerpainting.

Some links -
http://lifehacker.com/ditch-your-cameras-black-and-white-option-for-better-m-1450339853
https://digital-photography-school.com/how-to-use-monochrome-preview-to-compose-better-color-photos/
http://www.lightstalking.com/black-white-decision/

And about conversion -
https://www.outdoorphotographer.com/photography-gear/photo-editing-software/software-for-b-and-w-image-control/
https://digital-photography-school.com/8-reasons-to-use-silver-efex-pro-2-for-your-black-and-white-conversions/
https://www.dpmag.com/software/processing/top-black-and-white-software/
https://www.shutterbug.com/content/geared-my-favorite-products-bw-photography-go-software-and-apps-help-you-make-it-monochrome

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

The jury on this judge will rule: WRONG

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

jerryc41 wrote:

... The "judge" is displaying one of the reasons why I don't enter photo contests.

Well, it was just a county fair, Jerry

All past UHH topics of discussion on this subject concur that you shoot in raw, which will be color, and then use a robust editor (such as Nik Silver Efex) to convert. The most impressive, memorable, stunning results are light years away from "one click."

thrash50

Another case of personal preference, you can get great monochrome, images with film, camera settings, or post processing. If you consider gray, a color, then there is no such thing as "black and white".

georgeretired Loc: Manitoba Canada

Agree with the other UHH club members, shoot in color and in RAW.

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

thrash50 wrote:

... If you consider gray, a color, then there is no such thing as "black and white".

If Outdoor Photographer magazine can use the term on their cover for several years running, it's good enough for me

Kuzano

The problem with photo contests are the judges. They cannot be unbiased. Handing out the word "judge" in any venue supposes that their bias's will definitely be exercised. Their lack of objectivity is a major purpose in their being named judges.

lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA

jerryc41 wrote:

I don't think you will find many people here agree... (show quote)

Same as jerryc41

But I will add, the idiot judge has it backwards and there is only one currently made actual B&W digital camera, a Leica, of course. Nikon used to make a B&W P&S / Bridge camera. Otherwise all digital cameras are color. Sure, you can get out of camera "B&W" JPGs but they still contain color data. What is needed for great digital B&W prints is a really good at minimum semi-professional Printer like a Canon PIXMA PRO-100 or -10 or -1, and even higher up their line with say 3 or 4 inks and heads for black and grays, or a few similar Epson Models. I have an older PIXMA PRO-9000 but it only has black and colors and creates only acceptable B&W that is far inferior to a real Silver print.

lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA

Leon S wrote:

The other day I attended a county fair judging in which the judge stated that in order to get a really good black and white you had to set the camera for black/white not convert it in software set up. Could anyone care to give comment to this statement. I personally don't agree but I don't normally shoot or print black and white. Thanks for any comments.

Yes, shoot it in a film camera with Ilford FP-4 Black and White film and then make a silver paper print! I personally used Kodak Plus-X for about 30 years.

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

lamiaceae wrote:

Same as jerryc41

"...the idiot judge..."

That would be a judge at a country fair in a county inhabited by idiots. "And the top idiot of 2018 is..."

lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA

jerryc41 wrote:

That would be a judge at a country fair in a county inhabited by idiots. "And the top idiot of 2018 is..."

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

Leon S wrote:

The other day I attended a county fair judging in which the judge stated that in order to get a really good black and white you had to set the camera for black/white not convert it in software set up. Could anyone care to give comment to this statement. I personally don't agree but I don't normally shoot or print black and white. Thanks for any comments.

There is some merit to this judge's advice. Seeing the world in black and white is not easy. Years ago I used to have a contrast viewing filter - still made by Tiffen - to be able to evaluate tonal contrast for black and white in a color world.

Now, that is clearly one approach. But by your telling the judge did not provide a rationale for not converting in software. Basically, it doesn't matter much whether you make contrast decisions when you are taking the picture and deciding what color filter to put on the lens to improve the contrast, or you do it electronically. My guess is that he is an old-timer who hasn't bothered to change with the times. You have more control over tonal contrast in post processing than you ever would with a piece of colored glass (or plastic) over your lens.

And there are at least 7 ways to convert the image:

https://photography.tutsplus.com/tutorials/7-black-and-white-photoshop-conversion-techniques--photo-488

f8lee Loc: New Mexico

The "stupid" part of the judge's demand is that, except for the Leica Monochrome mentioned above, EVERY digital camera shoots in color (Bayer or XTrans pattern of RGB filters over photo sites) - when you set a camera to "shoot in B&W" all you are doing is having the camera's built-in computer's software make the conversion from the very same raw data that you could otherwise process in your laptop or desktop. In other words, other than Leica's model - it's ALWAYS being done with software.

So the only question is - do you trust that your camera will do what you wish, or would you prefer the flexibility of making all manner of tweaks while you do the "conversion" on a large screen?

pithydoug Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY

Leon S wrote:

The other day I attended a county fair judging in which the judge stated that in order to get a really good black and white you had to set the camera for black/white not convert it in software set up. Could anyone care to give comment to this statement. I personally don't agree but I don't normally shoot or print black and white. Thanks for any comments.

Sounds like Rudy Giuliani. Need i say more!