akamerica

Years ago I became befuddled with the catalog challenges that come with Adobe Lightroom. Additionally was that edited .nef had to be saved in Lightroom's file format creating a duplicate picture to manage and keep track of. Don't move any picture outside of Lightroom!??? My adopted file format is simply YEAR-MONTH-DAY Description i.e. "2018-07-28 Joe's HS Graduation"

I note all the questions and problems presented in UHH that would seem to confirm my decision to post process my pictures in Camera Raw saving my edits in the original nef. If there was a really special picture then into Photoshop for a learning curve and that special process.

Have I lost out on something? What are your comments?

rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA

You can't really over-write NEF files with edits. NEF files are unprocessed image data files, and will always remain so.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

I think you may want to consider investing some time in understanding how LR works. You don't edit raw files, you edit the metadata. You can opt to write metadata changes to xmp - just like camera raw. You can use your folder structure. And you can move files outside of LR - I do it all the time. I just make sure that after every move, I sync the file and folder changes with LR's catalog. I never ever ever create a duplicate of a raw file. If I need a dupe, I use a virtual copy. Using camera raw is going to give you exactly the same image results as LR, but LR is faster to use, particularly when you use presets for repetitive tasks. All of my images end up in Photoshop, since LR/ACR and nearly all raw converters are global, rules-based parametric editors. A truly finished image requires some enhancement in Photoshop. I have yet to see an raw edit that could not be improved upon in Photoshop or some other pixel-based editor.

AndyH Loc: Massachusetts and New Hampshire

Yes. LR is a non-destructive editor, and you can repeatedly save versions of your edits without loss of image quality. People seem to have a lot of misconceptions about post processing software in general.

Andy

JD750 Loc: SoCal

If that works for you then simply do it that way. Why are you questioning it?

mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey

Its possible the OP may have been referring to converting his .NEF files to .DNG for Lightroom, thus the duplicates. Perhaps he has an old version of Lightroom that does not support his camera's NEF files or he thinks converting to .DNG is a requirement for Lightroom.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

If that's the case, he might have a similarly old version of Photoshop, in which case he'd still need to make a copy. Either way, he'd be best served by keeping his software current, since dng, has not been adopted as any kind of a standard - at least not to the degree that Adobe had hoped.

via the lens Loc: Northern California, near Yosemite NP

You should simply use whatever works best for you. Having said that, it is obvious that you did not do anything to educate yourself first about using LR. Nothing in LR has to be saved, ever: the metadata is automatically saved and the original file simply remains as is. When you export that file, then the metadata changes are applied. You can edit one file in multiple ways if you so desire. There is never a need, however, to keep duplicate files as some people do, which is one of the benefits of using the program. The application simply links to whatever file-keeping format you have and all of those decisions are made by you. People have trouble with the program because they don't want to learn how to use it, it's that simple.

joseph premanandan

you might consider looking at the videos by Anthony Morganti in youtube.they are great teaching videos both for lightroom and photoshop.

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

I get the sense you don't quite understand how Lightroom works.

Your images don't actually reside "inside" Lightroom. Instead it creates a database of thumbnails of your images (wherever you choose to keep them), with notes about adjustments and such related to each image kept in small "sidecar" files that LR creates. Those adjustments are never applied to an original RAW file... usually won't be applied to a JPEG either, but you can override that and cause LR to apply changes to an original JPEG if you wish (not sure why you would, tho). In other words, LR is "non-destructive". It's designed to instead make copies with any changes you want, leaving the original file unchanged and intact. You can even create "virtual copies" of any given image in LR, as many as you want, with different processes to be applied (such as one in color, another converted to black & white, and a third that's cropped differently.... or whatever).

You can use LR to create folders and move things around... Or not. It's up to you.

Lightroom is primarily intended to serve as an archive management tool. It actually only has limited image editing and optimization capabilities. LR's image adjustments are mostly "global", the entire image, not just a select portion of it. And it's retouching tools are fairly crude and clumsy. The idea is that you can quickly work through large numbers of images and make "proofs" with LR... but not really finish images to a high degree. For that you can use LR to locate the image, do a couple quick major edits (such as straightening and setting a crop/aspect ratio)... then have LR pass off the file to a more powerful image editor such as Photoshop for finishing.

If you have another archive management/cataloging program... or if you only shoot relatively small number of images and organize them using your computer's operating system.... you might not need Lightroom. It's most valuable to folks you work with a relatively large number of images.

On the other hand, if you only use your images at relatively low resolution such as online display, you might be able to only use LR.... may never need to pass images off to a more powerful image editing/optimization software.

If you haven't already done so, I recommend you get a book or two on Lightroom and learn to use it. It's capable of a lot of things and there are many time-saving shortcuts built in.... It also is highly user-customizable. But it can take some time to learn to explore all the options, learn to use it highly efficiently and adapt it to your particular needs. There are also online Lightroom tutorials. Search for "Lightroom Queen" website... she's an expert on LR with tons of good info.. Youtube videos can be helpful figuring out certain, special processes.... but I don't find them all that helpful for the overall, general learning process and always have to wonder if whoever posted the Youtube video actually knows what they're talking about. I still prefer a book or two for reference

Some of the most powerful things in LR are keyboard shortcuts and "right click" menus... well worth learning to use since they make the whole image editing process a lot easier. But there's so much available, it takes time to learn to use them.

You also can batch rename files or add EXIF data to them (such as copyright info or keywords) during Import, saving a lot of time.

I use a YYYY_MM_DD_optional_keyword folder label and YYYY_MM_DD_xxxx file name, similar to what you do. I set up my folders and download images into them from my memory cards outside LR... but then Import from those folders and use LR to organize, rename, etc., etc. (Note: My folder/file name conventions are "old school"... based on limitations of earlier operating systems and software. There's more flexibility how you name those things today, with modern systems.)

I don't see where the "sidecar" files are a problem. They simply reside alongside my original images in my archives.... if and when I move one, I move both. No big deal.

But an alternative is to "convert" your proprietary RAW files (NEF = Nikon) to Adobe DNG files, which do not require sidecar files. Instead, they store the same info within the DNG file itself. You can create a set of DNG from your originals using LR or Adobe's free DNG converter. You can convert... or you can make a DNG copy and retain your original NEFs, if you wish. (Note: Some folks have noted "issues" with DNG, so it might be good idea to keep originals.... search for "DNG problems" and read some of the user comments, to decide for yourself.)

akamerica

Thank you for your thoughts and comments.

Actually I did learn to use Lightroom and have several guide books. I currently superscribe to PS/LR/Bridge on the monthly plan, so I do have the current versions. How the edits are saved with the original is of secondary importance and may not be relative.

My post is to learn what I am missing with LR, and if it might be worth the effort to use Adobe's catalog system that many UGG posts report troubles with. And yes there are rules and no nos with any software program. So is it worth having to maintain a separate file system?

akamerica

Thank you for the exceptional reply. You make many excellent points that highlight the benefits of Lightroom. I am going to give it another go after I figure out how to start a catalog and not import all of the pictures on my pictures hard drive.

Thank you again.

Art

AndyH Loc: Massachusetts and New Hampshire

One suggestion: Read some tutorials on setting up your LR catalogue and importing photos. It can be pretty daunting to fix things AFTER you've set them up, so getting it right the first time is a great idea. Figuring out your workflow and organizational system for files are the most important - build a solid foundation and all that. After you've imported, you're probably going to want to slog through them, year by year, keywording them and rating your best and best of the best work. It takes a while, but the results are really worth it.

Andy

pithydoug Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY

There are hundreds of videos on youtube to guide the person asking. Pick Morganti or Kost and sit back an watch. I think his has missed the basics!