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Nikon Lens Mount
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Apr 27, 2018 19:27:32   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
rmalarz wrote:
Huh??? I use non-AI lenses on my FX Nikons regularly. Why would anyone need an adapter?
--Bob


How do you do it?
https://www.nikonians.org/reviews/nikon-slr-camera-and-lens-compatibility
Unless this chart is in error the non-AI will damage all but the DF of digital cameras.

I am not saying you are wrong as you do it but there is something you do? Were they modified with the AI modification? Or are they 100% original.
This would be good to know if these charts are in error.
PS My Nikon F works great with Pre-AI lenses.

Thank you.

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Apr 27, 2018 20:39:02   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
I use several non-AI lenses on high-end Nikon DSLR cameras. They work just fine. A couple even have your declared nuisance rabbit ears to engage the Photomic meter. I also use a Nikon F with a Photomic meter and never found it an issue to engage the pin and mount the lens. I can actually do that quite quickly. So, I go with it if isn't broken, don't muck with it.
--Bob
Mobius wrote:
I'm sort of with DJO, Nikon should allow the use of non-AI lenses on their higher end DSLRs.

As some background early Nikon lenses had a fork on the top of the lens that would engage a pin in a clip-on meter or a photomic head. This told the light meter what the lens was doing. These lenses were a bit of a nuisance to change because you had to set the aperture to f 5.6 when you put them on the camera so that the fork and the pin would align and engage.

The next step were the "AI" lenses (automatic indexing). The camera had a pin in the mount that protruded into what was the base of the lens, the AI lens mounts had areas of the base (that was the f stop ring) missing to receive the pin. As the f stop was changed the pin would follow the movement. In the case of the TTL (photomic head) meters, I don't think they actually knew the f stop, but it knew how many stops down it is from what the meter is look through. Note: the AI only has to do with the f stop information being transmitted to the meter, nothing to do with manual or automatic.

For several years after AI lenses were introduced, the cameras with the AI pins all had the ability to press a release button and fold the AI pin out of the way allowing the use of non-AI lenses. Somewhere around the F4 or F5 Nikon stopped having the AI pin release as standard, but it was available as a repair option.

Later on with more and more electronics the actual f stop were known.

Back to the OPs comment, it doesn't seem like the kind of thing an adapter would fix, anything in between would change the distance of the lens from the sensor.

Now for the politics. I find it INEXCUSABLE that Nikon doesn't at least have available the AI pin release option for the higher end DSLR cameras. I for one have several lenses and bellows that I would like to play with on my D700 or D810. I once mention this problem to Nikon and I received a very curt response telling me that maybe it is time to get some newer lenses. I have many newer lenses but I don't want to have to re-buy all of now-and-then (eg. 1000mm reflex, 28mm PC, PB5 bellows) lenses that I have. I'v e given up any hope for the invasive fish-eye with digital.
I'm sort of with DJO, Nikon should allow the use o... (show quote)

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Apr 27, 2018 20:54:13   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
rmalarz wrote:
I use several non-AI lenses on high-end Nikon DSLR cameras. They work just fine. A couple even have your declared nuisance rabbit ears to engage the Photomic meter. I also use a Nikon F with a Photomic meter and never found it an issue to engage the pin and mount the lens. I can actually do that quite quickly. So, I go with it if isn't broken, don't muck with it.
--Bob


I wasn't talking the rabbit ears but the aperture ring not being milled out to clear the follower on the body. Doesn't that follower smash into the rear of the aperture ring on the lens?

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Apr 27, 2018 21:42:42   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
I've not seen that in any of the lenses that I can put on my cameras. Everything works just fine.
--Bob
Architect1776 wrote:
I wasn't talking the rabbit ears but the aperture ring not being milled out to clear the follower on the body. Doesn't that follower smash into the rear of the aperture ring on the lens?

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Apr 27, 2018 22:33:00   #
nikonbrain Loc: Crystal River Florida
 
DJO wrote:
There is no shortage of opinions (or discussions) about the Nikon DF. Good, bad or indifferent, I say to each their own. That notwithstanding, seemingly, neither is there a shortage of demand.

I think that part of the DF appeal, perhaps a large part, is the capacity to use non-Ai manual focus lenses. My question is this: Why Nikon, an enterprising third party manufacturer, or someone in their garage hasn't come up with a replacement lens mount or adapter kit for other Nikon camera bodies, using a design based on the Nikon DF or Nikon FM?

Of course not all Nikon camera bodies are the same size, but the distance from the front of the lens mount to the film plane or sensor will always be the same.

This might be a crazy idea, but it wouldn't the first time a completely crazy idea made a lot of money.
There is no shortage of opinions (or discussions) ... (show quote)


There is no need to need an adapter for non AI lenses simply have someone AI your lenses , if not do them yourself . I have done 2 myself a 55mm 1.2 , a 1.8 85 , its not that hard its just a notch that you create with a file , its the placement you need to find on the internet...The beginning and end of the notch is critical that is what tells the camera how wide open it is . Without the notch it can mash or deform the the feeler pawl on the camera ,it has absolutely nothing to do with the contacts on the camera .......it is best to remove the f ring from the lens to do this .....

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Apr 27, 2018 22:36:09   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
Some pre-AI lenses will plane the contacts right off your expensive DSLR.

I've not modified any of the non-AI lenses I use and they work just fine with my cameras.
--Bob
nikonbrain wrote:
There is no need to need an adapter for non AI lenses simply have someone AI your lenses , if not do them yourself . I have done 2 myself a 55mm 1.2 , a 1.8 85 , its not that hard its just a notch that you create with a file , its the placement you need to find on the internet...The beginning and end it notch is critical that is what tells the camera how wide open it is . Without the notch it can mash or deform the the feeler pawl on the camera ,it has absolutely nothing to do with the contacts on the camera .......
There is no need to need an adapter for non AI len... (show quote)

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Apr 27, 2018 22:42:26   #
RTCreed Loc: Forest Park, IL
 
There are still people out there that will convert non AI lenses. John White in Michigan has done quite a few of my lenses that I think are worth saving to use with later Nikons. See: www.aiconversions.com
He usually turns things around in a week or so and his work is impeccable.

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Apr 28, 2018 01:08:34   #
Harry0 Loc: Gardena, Cal
 
The folk that I know that would like a df kind of camera are looking for old school simplicity, utility and sturdy. Ness. They get tired of endless menus to change a setting. They'd really like, and say they would buy, the df2. Get rid of all the bozo modes (Party, Baby, Food, etc). Install the d610 sensor and system. 2 dials on top- PASM and Shutter. I should be able to adjust my focus and aperture from the lens any time. Simple and reliable. And it looks like a Nikon.

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Apr 28, 2018 06:08:46   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
rmalarz wrote:
I've not seen that in any of the lenses that I can put on my cameras. Everything works just fine.
--Bob

Are your lenses AI Modified?
I have an FE and my original non modified lenses won't mount due to the aperture ring hitting the follower unless it is raised.

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Apr 28, 2018 08:18:22   #
BebuLamar
 
Harry0 wrote:
The folk that I know that would like a df kind of camera are looking for old school simplicity, utility and sturdy. Ness. They get tired of endless menus to change a setting. They'd really like, and say they would buy, the df2. Get rid of all the bozo modes (Party, Baby, Food, etc). Install the d610 sensor and system. 2 dials on top- PASM and Shutter. I should be able to adjust my focus and aperture from the lens any time. Simple and reliable. And it looks like a Nikon.


I take that you don't have a Df. People who have the Df don't think your way.

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Apr 28, 2018 09:21:38   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
Not to my knowledge. I purchased most of them used. They just attach and work. Some require the aperture to be set at the smallest opening and adjusted through the aperture wheel on the camera. Some, as one I recently purchased, adjust the aperture using the aperture ring on the lens. However, as I mentioned, there are two or three that I wouldn't think of even trying to attach due to the mechanical configuration of the lens.
--Bob

Architect1776 wrote:
Are your lenses AI Modified?
I have an FE and my original non modified lenses won't mount due to the aperture ring hitting the follower unless it is raised.

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Apr 28, 2018 09:29:30   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
rmalarz wrote:
Not to my knowledge. I purchased most of them used. They just attach and work. Some require the aperture to be set at the smallest opening and adjusted through the aperture wheel on the camera. Some, as one I recently purchased, adjust the aperture using the aperture ring on the lens. However, as I mentioned, there are two or three that I wouldn't think of even trying to attach due to the mechanical configuration of the lens.
--Bob


Then more than likely they have been modified in the past some time to allow clearance of the follower.

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Apr 28, 2018 09:40:52   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
rmalarz wrote:
Personally, I think you're trying to push a chain up a hill.

No, the 1971 50mm lens I mentioned would damage the contacts in the DF as well. The 28mm lens I mentioned is completely manual. That means I have to focus and change the f-stop. The camera won't do it for me.

Should you repost. This is my free advice. Drop it. It isn't worth it.
--Bob


I cannot get the image of pushing that chain out of my mind . . .

But totally agree. It's a moot point. The camera is aimed at traditionalists that like the classic Nikon look - similar to what Fuji did with their rangefinder-styled cameras. It really has nothing to do with lens compatibility.

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Apr 28, 2018 09:53:33   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
Harry0 wrote:
The folk that I know that would like a df kind of camera are looking for old school simplicity, utility and sturdy. Ness. They get tired of endless menus to change a setting. They'd really like, and say they would buy, the df2. Get rid of all the bozo modes (Party, Baby, Food, etc). Install the d610 sensor and system. 2 dials on top- PASM and Shutter. I should be able to adjust my focus and aperture from the lens any time. Simple and reliable. And it looks like a Nikon.


I've had that level of simplicity you talk about with all of my Nikons. I just need to turn off all of the automatic features and go back to basics. What could be simpler than that. Ok, so I don't have a physical knob to change shutter speed or ISO (or would you prefer I call it ASA), but i do like auto focus, the ability to choose ISO for the situation without needing to swap film, a metering system that offers spot functionality, in addition to the center weighted system made famous by their FTn model, etc. Most of the menus are used to access settings that weren't on the old film Nikons anyway. If you don't want to wade through menus, you don't really need to. But one thing is certain - you can't have all of the intelligence and features available on the new cameras without needing to access menus, push buttons etc to adjust your settings.

The Df still lacks a focusing screen that has a spilt focus and/or microprism to help you focus with those 40 yr old lenses you seem to cherish. Now having a PSAM knob would be cheating, wouldn't it? Never had that on my old Nikons.

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Apr 28, 2018 10:02:51   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
I've looked at the lenses I use regularly and they don't show any signs of being modified. No change in the appearance of the metal's finish, etc.
--Bob
Architect1776 wrote:
Then more than likely they have been modified in the past some time to allow clearance of the follower.

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