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Mar 25, 2018 09:41:26   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
Buckeye Bob wrote:
First post here but would love some help. I am definitely an amateur and shoot with a Canon 70D and love it for what I do. I primarily shoot landscapes, nature but also lots of pics of my son and his band. My primary lens is a Tamron 16-300 f3.5-6.3. I am looking to upgrade to a faster lens primarily for the concert pics as it tends to be more challenging lighting obviously. I do like the Tamron line especially with the Vibration Control and am considering the 24-70 f2.8 Di VC G2 SP. Most of the shots I take are closer to the stage so don’t necessarily need the longer focal length. Although also considered upgrading to the 70-200 f2.8. Would love to hear your thoughts and anything else I should consider.

Thanks in advance.
First post here but would love some help. I am de... (show quote)


Both lenses should be excellent choices, the new Tamron lenses are very competitive with Canon's best, DXO has the older Tammy 70-200 on par with the Canon 70-200 mk II for about 1/2 the price, the Tammy G1 scored much better in DXO testing than did the original Canon version and one has to assume that the G2 is a better lens. You alone will have to decide which of the the focal lengths will better serve your needs.

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Mar 25, 2018 09:47:38   #
billnourse Loc: Bloomfield, NM
 
I have the 24-70 f2.8 and 70-200 f2.8 but in Canon and they are must have sizes for me for what I do, which is similar to what you said you do. That being said, the Tamron is a great lens and would likely serve you just as well as the more pricey Canon L's. Plus the 24-70 has IS and the Canon does not.

Bill

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Mar 25, 2018 09:55:44   #
gvarner Loc: Central Oregon Coast
 
On your crop frame sensor the 24-70 would be like a 36-105, plenty of reach for being close to the stage. Or try to find a faster prime in that range. There are lots for Canon but the ones I saw are full frame and spendy. I have a Nikon 35mm 1.8 for my crop sensor D7000 that I would use for close-in stage work without flash.

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Mar 25, 2018 10:01:35   #
crazydaddio Loc: Toronto Ontario Canada
 
Buckeye Bob wrote:
First post here but would love some help. I am definitely an amateur and shoot with a Canon 70D and love it for what I do. I primarily shoot landscapes, nature but also lots of pics of my son and his band. My primary lens is a Tamron 16-300 f3.5-6.3. I am looking to upgrade to a faster lens primarily for the concert pics as it tends to be more challenging lighting obviously. I do like the Tamron line especially with the Vibration Control and am considering the 24-70 f2.8 Di VC G2 SP. Most of the shots I take are closer to the stage so don’t necessarily need the longer focal length. Although also considered upgrading to the 70-200 f2.8. Would love to hear your thoughts and anything else I should consider.

Thanks in advance.
First post here but would love some help. I am de... (show quote)


Here are some concert pics with FF camera for reference.
I have 2 F4.0 lenses with IS (24-70 and 16-35)...as long as there is low motion, they will do fine and are almost as sharp as their 2.8 counterparts with no IS. If things are moving, they will struggle a little.

Note the B&W photo, her face is focused and sharp'ish but her hand shows motion. (This is @ 1/250 and iso 640. Your 70D will take a GREAT photo at these settings!)
I had full stage access however the stage was fairly large so getting close still meant that the 70-200 handled most of what I needed. For a more intimate stage setting in a club environement, 24-70 may work for you...and with IS @2.8, you have a very flexible tool for all forms of lighting and motion.

I have a new 85mm 1.4. Looking forward to using it at my next event to blow-away the background for shots where the angle of the shot may pick up the busyness...

16-35mm @19mm FF iso1250 and pp
16-35mm @19mm FF iso1250 and pp...
(Download)


(Download)

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Mar 25, 2018 10:21:05   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
Buckeye Bob wrote:
First post here but would love some help. I am definitely an amateur and shoot with a Canon 70D and love it for what I do. I primarily shoot landscapes, nature but also lots of pics of my son and his band. My primary lens is a Tamron 16-300 f3.5-6.3. I am looking to upgrade to a faster lens primarily for the concert pics as it tends to be more challenging lighting obviously. I do like the Tamron line especially with the Vibration Control and am considering the 24-70 f2.8 Di VC G2 SP. Most of the shots I take are closer to the stage so don’t necessarily need the longer focal length. Although also considered upgrading to the 70-200 f2.8. Would love to hear your thoughts and anything else I should consider.

Thanks in advance.
First post here but would love some help. I am de... (show quote)


The CANON 70-200 2.8 would be an excellent choice.

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Mar 25, 2018 10:39:31   #
Fotoserj Loc: St calixte Qc Ca
 
How much of youre shot are below 70mm, that should point you toward the lens you’ll use most, both glass are very good, it’s more a matter of what suit you’re operation better

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Mar 25, 2018 10:40:49   #
jackm1943 Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
 
Buckeye Bob wrote:
First post here but would love some help. I am definitely an amateur and shoot with a Canon 70D and love it for what I do. I primarily shoot landscapes, nature but also lots of pics of my son and his band. My primary lens is a Tamron 16-300 f3.5-6.3. I am looking to upgrade to a faster lens primarily for the concert pics as it tends to be more challenging lighting obviously. I do like the Tamron line especially with the Vibration Control and am considering the 24-70 f2.8 Di VC G2 SP. Most of the shots I take are closer to the stage so don’t necessarily need the longer focal length. Although also considered upgrading to the 70-200 f2.8. Would love to hear your thoughts and anything else I should consider.

Thanks in advance.
First post here but would love some help. I am de... (show quote)

I take lots of photos of my grandson's little rock band, in small bars with horrible lighting. I did 1100 photos just last Thursday. I'm using the "G1" version of the Tamron 24-70 f2.8 and it works perfectly on my FF camera, but I'm usually only a few feet away. I usually shoot at 1/100 at f3.5 and auto ISO. On the crop frame 70D it would be perfect if you are standing a little further away.
Also, it's hard to believe there could be an even better lens than the G1 version, so the G2 must be outstanding. I'd like to borrow one and compare the IQ to my G1 version.

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Mar 25, 2018 11:02:41   #
marycar53 Loc: Tuscumbia Al
 
I purchased a Canon 24-70mm 2.8L last year for my 7D MII to shoot a wedding. I volunteer at a lot of the music events in the Muscle Shoals AL area and this has become my lens of choice over the others I have. I was using a 24-130??mm 4.0L (it's in my truck undergoing repairs at dealer). I also use a 70-200mm 2.8L Canon lens on my backup 7D.

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Mar 25, 2018 11:35:07   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
Unless the band is performing on a well-lit stage, you may find that even f/2.8 is not a wide enough aperture to maintain a high enough shutter speed.

There are also another alternatives. The Sigma 50-100mm f/1.8 is one. If you are not right on top of the band, 50 mm may be sufficiently wide for your purpose, and this lens' maximum aperture throughout the focal range is a full one and a third stops faster than an f/2.8. And, if you will be really close, there is also the Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8. I use one on my Canon 7D Mark II to photograph my musician son when he is performing live in small clubs where I can get right up front. Just a couple of additional options to add to your confusion.

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Mar 25, 2018 11:38:55   #
jeep_daddy Loc: Prescott AZ
 
Rent some lenses to take to the next concert.

Buckeye Bob wrote:
First post here but would love some help. I am definitely an amateur and shoot with a Canon 70D and love it for what I do. I primarily shoot landscapes, nature but also lots of pics of my son and his band. My primary lens is a Tamron 16-300 f3.5-6.3. I am looking to upgrade to a faster lens primarily for the concert pics as it tends to be more challenging lighting obviously. I do like the Tamron line especially with the Vibration Control and am considering the 24-70 f2.8 Di VC G2 SP. Most of the shots I take are closer to the stage so don’t necessarily need the longer focal length. Although also considered upgrading to the 70-200 f2.8. Would love to hear your thoughts and anything else I should consider.

Thanks in advance.
First post here but would love some help. I am de... (show quote)

Reply
Mar 25, 2018 11:51:16   #
NikonZSeriesMike Loc: Naples, FL
 
I have both the Tamron 24-70 F/2.8 G2 and the the Tamron 70-200 F/2.8 G2. Both lenses are excellent. I use each depending on the nature of shooting. The build quality on each is fabulous and the Vibration Control works great. The 70-200 is a little heavy but definitely manageable. Both lenses deliver sharp pictures and they both excel in low light situations. The price on both is excellent.

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Mar 25, 2018 12:14:18   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
One more good prime option is the Canon EF 85 f1.8. Has an equivalent FOV of ~135mm on a crop camera, over a stop faster than an f2.8, and not as expensive as some of the pricier suggestions.

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Mar 25, 2018 12:31:38   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
Buckeye Bob wrote:
First post here but would love some help. I am definitely an amateur and shoot with a Canon 70D and love it for what I do. I primarily shoot landscapes, nature but also lots of pics of my son and his band. My primary lens is a Tamron 16-300 f3.5-6.3. I am looking to upgrade to a faster lens primarily for the concert pics as it tends to be more challenging lighting obviously. I do like the Tamron line especially with the Vibration Control and am considering the 24-70 f2.8 Di VC G2 SP. Most of the shots I take are closer to the stage so don’t necessarily need the longer focal length. Although also considered upgrading to the 70-200 f2.8. Would love to hear your thoughts and anything else I should consider.

Thanks in advance.
First post here but would love some help. I am de... (show quote)


For stage lighting, I prefer to use prime lenses... which can offer larger aperture than most zooms, plus are smaller, lighter and often less expensive. Check out Canon EF 24mm f/2.8 IS USM, EF 28mm f/2.8 IS USM, EF 28mm f/1.8 USM, EF 35mm f/2 IS USM, EF 50mm f/1.4 USM, and EF 85mm f/1.8 USM, in particular. The EF 135mm f/2L USM is also great, though it's a lot more expensive.

The Tamron "Di" lenses are full frame capable ("Di II" are crop only), which will necessarily make it bigger and heavier than a crop-only lens such as the Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM.
Most zooms are f/2.8 at best. It can be a big help to have one or two more stops, such as many of the primes provide. (Yes, a couple of the primes mentioned above are f/2.8, too... but they're wide angle that don't need as fast shutter speeds and tend to be a bit smaller, lighter and less expensive than zooms covering the same focal lengths. There are some faster wide angle avail., but they tend to be less sharp in the corners and give up the advantage of size/weight/cost, plus in some of the wider have a protruding, convex front element that precludes using standard filters on them.)

All that said, for portraiture I do like a 24-70mm on an APS-C crop camera (like your 70D). It's a nice range of focal lengths. I switch to a zoom when shooting kids or pets, for example... Less predictable subjects where the zoom might be necessary. I use Canon 24-70mm f/2.8 (no stabilization, which doesn't bother me on shorter focal lengths like this.... though I do LOVE stabilization on telephotos and it's one of the key reasons I switched to Canon in 2001.)

I hear good things about Tamron's most recent 70-200mm f/2.8.... But I use Canon's, which are among the best made by anyone (For decades Canon has used fluorite in many of their telephotos, which makes for less chromatic aberration and sharper images. In fact, within last year or two, Nikon has also redesigned many of the telephotos to use FL. No one else, Tamron included, uses it due to the cost and difficulty working with it.)

Some of the above Canon lenses have IS, which I'm sure in most cases is AT LEAST as good as Tamron VC (after all, Canon invented stabilized lenses for SLRs and DSLRs, so has been making them for many years longer than Tamron and everyone else who have merely followed Canon's lead). Canon USM focus drive also is their fastest and highest performance (Tamron USD is essentially a copy of that, likely with similar performance... which their 24-70mm has, but I don't think your 16-300mm does.)

A Tamron I use... their SP 60mm f/2 Macro/Portrait (crop only) is great! But it's not stabilized and it has slower focus drive (probably micro motor, I don't think they specify). It's fine for macro and portraiture... but not for any sort of action shooting. Too slow to acquire focus for fast shooting situations and not able to reliably track anything moving faster than a relatively slow walk. I've also got an older version of Tamron's 90mm macro now... and I've used a variety of their other manual focus lenses in the past. They're "SP" line, in particular, has been among my favorites.... They've recently introduced several impressive looking primes, too (haven't used them and don't know how they compare).

To tell you the truth I don't use, don't like and never will own a "do everything" zoom like that 16-300mm. The reason I bought a DSLR/SLR was to be able to interchange lenses. I see no reason to compromise in many ways (various image quality factors, focus performance, really small max apertures, limited close focusing ability & possibly more) just to be "convenienced" by never having to change my lens! If that were my goal, I would have bought a non-interchangeable "point n shoot" camera, rather than turning my DSLR into one!

Whatever you decide to do, I think you will find the lens upgrades very worthwhile (lenses very often make a lot more difference in the quality of your end results... than the camera they're used upon).

EDIT: I hate to see folks have motion blur problems because they are afraid to use higher ISOs. I suggest you experiment with higher ISOs.... Might be surprised what you can do. Following was shot with 7D Mark II at ISO 16000 (yes, sixteen thousand, not sixteen hundred), which has similar sensor to your 70D....



You can see some noise in the enlarged detail on the right (which is a lot larger than I'd ever print the image). But I think it's pretty well controlled. This high ISO test mage was shot RAW with care to avoid underexposure (boosting exposure in post-processing ALWAYS amplifies noise). It was then converted to JPEG through Lightroom only using default noise reduction settings. Normally with high ISO images I do additional work using Photoshop with a Noiseware plug-in. But this was a "worst case" test. And I think the camera passed pretty well! You may not be able to use quite as high ISO with your slightly older camera... but you should test how far you can push it. I kept to no higher than ISO 6400 with my older 7Ds... and ISO 3200 with my 50Ds before that.

In addition, stage lighting is often a lot brighter than folks realize. It's often concentrated spot lighting, but sometimes nearly as bright as daylight.

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Mar 25, 2018 12:52:53   #
PHRubin Loc: Nashville TN USA
 
I attend the Midnite Jamboree most every week. I sit 3-4 rows back from the stage. I am using an 80D with a 550EX flash and a Sigma 18-300mm lens. I either shoot at ~ISO 1600 for available light or ISO 800 for flash. I seem to most always have the lens between 70 and 300mm, except when I shoot the whole stage. Even this full shot of a standing person (flash fill over available light) is at more than 70mm. (I have since dropped the ISO and removed the exposure compensation which was the result of too fast changes).

I suspect using a flash would give you more flexibility than a more limited focal range zoom, if you can be happy with high (~1600) ISOs.


(Download)

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Mar 25, 2018 13:39:21   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
amfoto1 wrote:
For stage lighting, I prefer to use prime lenses... which can offer larger aperture than most zooms, plus are smaller, lighter and often less expensive. Check out Canon EF 24mm f/2.8 IS USM, EF 28mm f/2.8 IS USM, EF 28mm f/1.8 USM, EF 35mm f/2 IS USM, EF 50mm f/1.4 USM, and EF 85mm f/1.8 USM, in particular. The EF 135mm f/2L USM is also great, though it's a lot more expensive.

The Tamron "Di" lenses are full frame capable ("Di II" are crop only), which will necessarily make it bigger and heavier than a crop-only lens such as the Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM.
Most zooms are f/2.8 at best. It can be a big help to have one or two more stops, such as many of the primes provide. (Yes, a couple of the primes mentioned above are f/2.8, too... but they're wide angle that don't need as fast shutter speeds and tend to be a bit smaller, lighter and less expensive than zooms covering the same focal lengths. There are some faster wide angle avail., but they tend to be less sharp in the corners and give up the advantage of size/weight/cost, plus in some of the wider have a protruding, convex front element that precludes using standard filters on them.)

All that said, for portraiture I do like a 24-70mm on an APS-C crop camera (like your 70D). It's a nice range of focal lengths. I switch to a zoom when shooting kids or pets, for example... Less predictable subjects where the zoom might be necessary. I use Canon 24-70mm f/2.8 (no stabilization, which doesn't bother me on shorter focal lengths like this.... though I do LOVE stabilization on telephotos and it's one of the key reasons I switched to Canon in 2001.)

I hear good things about Tamron's most recent 70-200mm f/2.8.... But I use Canon's, which are among the best made by anyone (For decades Canon has used fluorite in many of their telephotos, which makes for less chromatic aberration and sharper images. In fact, within last year or two, Nikon has also redesigned many of the telephotos to use FL. No one else, Tamron included, uses it due to the cost and difficulty working with it.)

Some of the above Canon lenses have IS, which I'm sure in most cases is AT LEAST as good as Tamron VC (after all, Canon invented stabilized lenses for SLRs and DSLRs, so has been making them for many years longer than Tamron and everyone else who have merely followed Canon's lead). Canon USM focus drive also is their fastest and highest performance (Tamron USD is essentially a copy of that, likely with similar performance... which their 24-70mm has, but I don't think your 16-300mm does.)

A Tamron I use... their SP 60mm f/2 Macro/Portrait (crop only) is great! But it's not stabilized and it has slower focus drive (probably micro motor, I don't think they specify). It's fine for macro and portraiture... but not for any sort of action shooting. Too slow to acquire focus for fast shooting situations and not able to reliably track anything moving faster than a relatively slow walk. I've also got an older version of Tamron's 90mm macro now... and I've used a variety of their other manual focus lenses in the past. They're "SP" line, in particular, has been among my favorites.... They've recently introduced several impressive looking primes, too (haven't used them and don't know how they compare).

To tell you the truth I don't use, don't like and never will own a "do everything" zoom like that 16-300mm. The reason I bought a DSLR/SLR was to be able to interchange lenses. I see no reason to compromise in many ways (various image quality factors, focus performance, really small max apertures, limited close focusing ability & possibly more) just to be "convenienced" by never having to change my lens! If that were my goal, I would have bought a non-interchangeable "point n shoot" camera, rather than turning my DSLR into one! N

Whatever you decide to do, I think you will find the lens upgrades very worthwhile (lenses very often make a lot more difference in the quality of your end results... than the camera they're used upon).

EDIT: I hate to see folks have motion blur problems because they are afraid to use higher ISOs. I suggest you experiment with higher ISOs.... Might be surprised what you can do. Following was shot with 7D Mark II at ISO 16000 (yes, sixteen thousand, not sixteen hundred), which has similar sensor to your 70D....



You can see some noise in the enlarged detail on the right (which is a lot larger than I'd ever print the image). But I think it's pretty well controlled. This high ISO test mage was shot RAW with care to avoid underexposure (boosting exposure in post-processing ALWAYS amplifies noise). It was then converted to JPEG through Lightroom only using default noise reduction settings. Normally with high ISO images I do additional work using Photoshop with a Noiseware plug-in. But this was a "worst case" test. And I think the camera passed pretty well! You may not be able to use quite as high ISO with your slightly older camera... but you should test how far you can push it. I kept to no higher than ISO 6400 with my older 7Ds... and ISO 3200 with my 50Ds before that.

In addition, stage lighting is often a lot brighter than folks realize. It's often concentrated spot lighting, but sometimes nearly as bright as daylight.
For stage lighting, I prefer to use prime lenses..... (show quote)


Alan, I just have to say how much I appreciate your comprehensive responses. I completely agree with several points you make including those on wide FL range zooms, Canon lenses and high ISO shots. Not sure why so many shooters are afraid of the higher ISOs - better to deal with a little noise than a blurred shot (which is useless) due to inadequate shutter speed trying to keep the ISO low.

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