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interchangeable digital backs
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Dec 23, 2017 14:36:24   #
Bobspez Loc: Southern NJ, USA
 
The point of shooting film is that film looks different than digital. With a digital back you are getting a digital image, exactly the same as putting a film lens on a digital camera. What's the point?

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Dec 23, 2017 15:07:14   #
blackest Loc: Ireland
 
rwww80a wrote:
All I want for Christmas is digital film. I don't need all the bells and whistles found on today's mini-computer photographic lens holders. I don't need a Nikon or Canon name on it.
Let Tokina, Sigma or other non-prime manufacturer develop a digital film replacement back for the old pro cameras with space for a micro SD card or two and I would be happy. In fact, a Sanyo or Sony could do it easily! It could fit the bottom of the camera, connect to the cameras electronics through the bottom contacts and be thin so it doesn't displace the eyepiece viewing distance. It doesn't even need a view screen. I'll look at my photos later on the computer where I can see the details.

If a point and shoot digital camera can be made for a few hundred dollars then this should be a snap for a real company even putting a full size Fx sensor on it.
All I want for Christmas is digital film. I don't... (show quote)


It's harder than you think, the lens has to focus on the sensor which would have to be where the film sits, how would you go about setting iso aperture and shutter speed? How do you trigger the shutter and the sensor at the same time? There is quite a lot behind the lens in a digital camera in the end what would you be using of the original camera other than the lens mount and the shutter. Most lenses can be adapted for use on a digital body and digital bodies can be had quite cheaply on older models.

The larger view camera's have a lot more flexibility you can bring the lens in closer allowing them to focus behind where the normal film plane would be and there have been a few adapters made to allow the use of a digital body on the back of some of them. There is a place for them with the tilts and shifts that you can do with these cameras that are just not possible with a dslr.

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Dec 23, 2017 17:52:06   #
rwww80a Loc: Hampton, NH
 
I've been pondering:
1. DIN/ASA could be set on the camera controls in conjunction with a setting on the digital film control. One control for the meter, one control for the digi-back. What is this term "iso aperature?"
2. Aperture is set on the lens control ring as it was always done on better lens. They only got rid of aperture rings to simplify the construction process for today's lens lines making them less expensive. They also make a lot of the lens components out of plastic with reduces weight (good!) but reduces lens life by introducing mechanical play as the plastics wear and shrink or expand with age. Metal construction was and is better.
3. Shutter speed has always been set by the camera body electronics. Still is.
4. Film (focus) plane is shown on the camera body; film or digital. Build the digi-back it so the body holds the sensor at the same plane as the film.
5. Trigger the sensor electronics with the camera body shutter release. Each digi-back would be able to hook up to the old removable interchangeable film backs that were available on the cameras of the past that had the appropriate controls. Even some old less expensive Nikons could be equipped with backs that could hold bulk film or an adapter that would imprint date information directly on the film. Some of the bodies have four or five contacts to control motor drive functions.
6. Yes there is a difference between film and digital images, it is getting closer. Why is there no setting for ASA/DIN 25 on most digital cameras? At one time this was the standard for sharpness. Bokeah control is the new "art," it used to be called "out of focus background."
7. There was a digital back made special for the Nikonos V underwater camera at one time. (Not commercially available.) A few photos of the set up exist. It was one of the first attempts by the bottomless military budget to make photo transmission to HQ for analysis. Not only was it a digital back but it functioned in the water!
8. Tilts and shifts of the lens were worked out for film lens and sold for 35 mm SLRs and are still available. In fact you can still find Nikon bellows in the marketplace.
9. Different brands, different dimensions, different electrical connections, just like lens mounts!
10. For a company like Sigma or Motorola this should be a no brainer and a new product line!
11. Yes, I like my D7200.
Also my interchangeable back, interchangeable lens, rangefinder Kodak Ektra, but I doubt there would be a large market for that one!
Bob

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Dec 23, 2017 18:40:05   #
BebuLamar
 
rwww80a wrote:
I've been pondering:
1. DIN/ASA could be set on the camera controls in conjunction with a setting on the digital film control. One control for the meter, one control for the digi-back. What is this term "iso aperature?"
2. Aperture is set on the lens control ring as it was always done on better lens. They only got rid of aperture rings to simplify the construction process for today's lens lines making them less expensive. They also make a lot of the lens components out of plastic with reduces weight (good!) but reduces lens life by introducing mechanical play as the plastics wear and shrink or expand with age. Metal construction was and is better.
3. Shutter speed has always been set by the camera body electronics. Still is.
4. Film (focus) plane is shown on the camera body; film or digital. Build the digi-back it so the body holds the sensor at the same plane as the film.
5. Trigger the sensor electronics with the camera body shutter release. Each digi-back would be able to hook up to the old removable interchangeable film backs that were available on the cameras of the past that had the appropriate controls. Even some old less expensive Nikons could be equipped with backs that could hold bulk film or an adapter that would imprint date information directly on the film. Some of the bodies have four or five contacts to control motor drive functions.
6. Yes there is a difference between film and digital images, it is getting closer. Why is there no setting for ASA/DIN 25 on most digital cameras? At one time this was the standard for sharpness. Bokeah control is the new "art," it used to be called "out of focus background."
7. There was a digital back made special for the Nikonos V underwater camera at one time. (Not commercially available.) A few photos of the set up exist. It was one of the first attempts by the bottomless military budget to make photo transmission to HQ for analysis. Not only was it a digital back but it functioned in the water!
8. Tilts and shifts of the lens were worked out for film lens and sold for 35 mm SLRs and are still available. In fact you can still find Nikon bellows in the marketplace.
9. Different brands, different dimensions, different electrical connections, just like lens mounts!
10. For a company like Sigma or Motorola this should be a no brainer and a new product line!
11. Yes, I like my D7200.
Also my interchangeable back, interchangeable lens, rangefinder Kodak Ektra, but I doubt there would be a large market for that one!
Bob
I've been pondering: br 1. DIN/ASA could be set o... (show quote)


But I don't think it's possible for anyone to make a digital back for your film camera that can deliver the same image quality as the D7200 for the same price as the D7200. I would estimate 3x the price of the D7200 is possible.

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Dec 23, 2017 20:55:21   #
blackest Loc: Ireland
 
rwww80a wrote:
I've been pondering:
1. DIN/ASA could be set on the camera controls in conjunction with a setting on the digital film control. One control for the meter, one control for the digi-back. What is this term "iso aperature?"
2. Aperture is set on the lens control ring as it was always done on better lens. They only got rid of aperture rings to simplify the construction process for today's lens lines making them less expensive. They also make a lot of the lens components out of plastic with reduces weight (good!) but reduces lens life by introducing mechanical play as the plastics wear and shrink or expand with age. Metal construction was and is better.
3. Shutter speed has always been set by the camera body electronics. Still is.
4. Film (focus) plane is shown on the camera body; film or digital. Build the digi-back it so the body holds the sensor at the same plane as the film.
5. Trigger the sensor electronics with the camera body shutter release. Each digi-back would be able to hook up to the old removable interchangeable film backs that were available on the cameras of the past that had the appropriate controls. Even some old less expensive Nikons could be equipped with backs that could hold bulk film or an adapter that would imprint date information directly on the film. Some of the bodies have four or five contacts to control motor drive functions.
6. Yes there is a difference between film and digital images, it is getting closer. Why is there no setting for ASA/DIN 25 on most digital cameras? At one time this was the standard for sharpness. Bokeah control is the new "art," it used to be called "out of focus background."
7. There was a digital back made special for the Nikonos V underwater camera at one time. (Not commercially available.) A few photos of the set up exist. It was one of the first attempts by the bottomless military budget to make photo transmission to HQ for analysis. Not only was it a digital back but it functioned in the water!
8. Tilts and shifts of the lens were worked out for film lens and sold for 35 mm SLRs and are still available. In fact you can still find Nikon bellows in the marketplace.
9. Different brands, different dimensions, different electrical connections, just like lens mounts!
10. For a company like Sigma or Motorola this should be a no brainer and a new product line!
11. Yes, I like my D7200.
Also my interchangeable back, interchangeable lens, rangefinder Kodak Ektra, but I doubt there would be a large market for that one!
Bob
I've been pondering: br 1. DIN/ASA could be set o... (show quote)


1) There should have been a comma between iso and aperture. ISO is pretty much another name for ASA or DIN.

The biggest obstacle is that it requires a supply of 20+ year old camera bodies, that are out of production and chances are the production tools were scrapped long ago. The only practical option would be to make new bodies as well. Samsung did that in partnership with Pentax for a while. It seems to have been a failed venture as Samsung exited that market.

However before consigning your lenses to the scrap heap consider the many mirrorless bodies which can use them.

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Dec 24, 2017 07:49:32   #
rwww80a Loc: Hampton, NH
 
Take a look at eBay, there are lots of bodies out there that could be used if given a chance. eBay is only a small portion of the universe of film still out there.

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Dec 24, 2017 08:39:42   #
JPL
 
rwww80a wrote:
All I want for Christmas is digital film. I don't need all the bells and whistles found on today's mini-computer photographic lens holders. I don't need a Nikon or Canon name on it.
Let Tokina, Sigma or other non-prime manufacturer develop a digital film replacement back for the old pro cameras with space for a micro SD card or two and I would be happy. In fact, a Sanyo or Sony could do it easily! It could fit the bottom of the camera, connect to the cameras electronics through the bottom contacts and be thin so it doesn't displace the eyepiece viewing distance. It doesn't even need a view screen. I'll look at my photos later on the computer where I can see the details.

If a point and shoot digital camera can be made for a few hundred dollars then this should be a snap for a real company even putting a full size Fx sensor on it.
All I want for Christmas is digital film. I don't... (show quote)


Here is an article about the latest attempt to do this. It is nowhere near as easy to do as you think. When making a digital back for slr you also have to figure out new controls for it or how to use the shutter on the slr with the digital back. There is hardly anything else than the shutter and the viewfinder on the slr that will work with digital back. Everything else has to be set on the back itself. Full frame sensor back will hardly be made for $2-300 as that amount would not even cover the sensor cost.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/photography/im-back-digital-back-for-film-cameras-kickstarter/
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/samellos/im-back-advance-digital-back-for-35mm-analog-camer

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Dec 24, 2017 09:19:16   #
BebuLamar
 
The bottom line is. A digital back is more difficult to make than an entire camera especially for the 35mm format and smaller. But such a back is possible so some day we may see such a back available but it would be more expensive than an equivalent camera.

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Dec 24, 2017 09:26:06   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
It's a lot easier to make digital backs for medium format cameras that already have interchangeable film backs. There just isn't enough demand for digital backs for old 35mm film cameras to make them economically viable.

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