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Nikon Df vs. Nikon D5300 Surprise and a kita!
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Dec 7, 2017 12:25:53   #
Mac Loc: Pittsburgh, Philadelphia now Hernando Co. Fl.
 
DaveyDitzer wrote:
PS. I am not posing as an "expert" or a pro. My experimental design expertise is in other fields, not digital cameras. I was simply curious to find a source for what I was observing in my pictures. I am certainly not an electronics or computer expert so once I wandered away from film, I became a beginner again. I am looking for helpful suggestions which usually come from a lot of "hoggers' and I appreciate your willingness to help.


Did you compare their low light/high ISO capabilities?

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Dec 7, 2017 12:30:46   #
Bobspez Loc: Southern NJ, USA
 
I enjoy experimenting with my cameras and lenses as well. I enjoy pixel peeping and comparing results at 100% resolution. A few others on UHH also like to do their own tests to compare cameras and lenses. Most don't seem to have an interest in doing that.
While writing this post I'm currently exporting edited 4K video to see if one method produces better results than another.
DaveyDitzer wrote:
PS. I am not posing as an "expert" or a pro. My experimental design expertise is in other fields, not digital cameras. I was simply curious to find a source for what I was observing in my pictures. I am certainly not an electronics or computer expert so once I wandered away from film, I became a beginner again. I am looking for helpful suggestions which usually come from a lot of "hoggers' and I appreciate your willingness to help.

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Dec 7, 2017 15:34:43   #
DaveyDitzer Loc: Western PA
 
Mac wrote:
Did you compare their low light/high ISO capabilities?


I seriously doubt based upon my reading, that the D5300 is anywhere near the Df in low light capabilities. And please let me state for the record, I am not trying to say one is best over the other. It would depend on what question is asked. I just wanted help in understanding what I observed. Next batch of comparison pictures in downloading now. I got a brief window of sunlight. I followed your (plural) suggestions, used one lens - the 50mm f1.4 D lens, manual focus on the D5300 and both auto and manual focus on the Df, all shot at f8 with ISO 200.

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Dec 7, 2017 16:09:00   #
FiddleMaker Loc: Merrimac, MA
 
CO wrote:
I've noticed that cameras that don't have an anti-aliasing filter in front of the sensor produce images that are slightly sharper than cameras that have the AA filter. Your D5300 doesn't have an AA filter but the Df does have one. I took some test shots with my D500 (no AA filter) and a D750 (has AA filter). The images were processed the same way for consistency. The D500 images were clearly sharper. I've also tested a D7100 (no AA filter) against other cameras.

The 2 mistakes that I made are: 1. paying full price for my D750 ($2,300 back in 2015) , 2. buying a camera with an AA filter.

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Dec 7, 2017 16:13:14   #
DaveyDitzer Loc: Western PA
 
DaveyDitzer wrote:
I seriously doubt based upon my reading, that the D5300 is anywhere near the Df in low light capabilities. And please let me state for the record, I am not trying to say one is best over the other. It would depend on what question is asked. I just wanted help in understanding what I observed. Next batch of comparison pictures in downloading now. I got a brief window of sunlight. I followed your (plural) suggestions, used one lens - the 50mm f1.4 D lens, manual focus on the D5300 and both auto and manual focus on the Df, all shot at f8 with ISO 200.
I seriously doubt based upon my reading, that the ... (show quote)


Here are the pictures I shot today. All were shot with a Nikon 50mm F1.4 D lens at f8. ISO held constant at 200. Shutter speeds all above 250. Camera body mounted on a Manfrotto tripod. Shutter with 2 or 10 second time delay. Manual or auto focus is noted in the title of the shot. In the distance shots, all of them were shot with the focus center on the red brick buildings in the slightly left of center in the picture. If there is anything I can add, please let me know. I appreciate your help.

D5300 A
D5300 A...
(Download)

D5300 B
D5300 B...
(Download)

D5300 C
D5300 C...
(Download)

Df auto focus
Df auto focus...
(Download)

Df auto focus
Df auto focus...
(Download)

Df auto focus
Df auto focus...
(Download)

Df manual focus
Df manual focus...
(Download)

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Dec 7, 2017 16:15:17   #
DaveyDitzer Loc: Western PA
 
FiddleMaker wrote:
The 2 mistakes that I made are: 1. paying full price for my D750 ($2,300 back in 2015) , 2. buying a camera with an AA filter.


You mentioned a D500. Does that have an anti aliasing filter or did you mean to refer to the D750? Thanks.

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Dec 7, 2017 16:17:28   #
DaveyDitzer Loc: Western PA
 
PS. All of the shots included (above) are JPEG taken directly from the camera chip - no PP.

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Dec 7, 2017 17:19:12   #
Bobspez Loc: Southern NJ, USA
 
I've looked at these. One thing I noticed right off is the 3200x2133 crop of the DF photos is considerably smaller than the 6000x4000 size of the D5300 photos.When looking at 100% resolution (download and click on the plus) of detail of the large brick buildings, the larger D5300 photo will appear to have more detail than the smaller DF photo. To even the playing field I then downsized your D5300 photos to 3200x(roughly) 2130 size and compared them again. Once again the details on the large brick building seemed sharper to me on the D5300 photo. It was hard to tell on the flower pictures because the focus point was not exactly the same, so it was difficult to compare similar objects on the flower photos.
This pretty much goes along with my own opinions formed some time ago. That's why I use a J1 camera with a CX sensor for small birds rather than my D7000. At distance, with a tight crop bringing the subject close to or at 100% resolution, the smaller sensor gets more fine detail with the same lens (a Nikkor 55-300 AFS VR zoom).
This is a very specific test of a single factor, and doesn't of course address other factors, such as low light performance or color depth and accuracy etc., where the DF probably would be superior.


DaveyDitzer wrote:
Here are the pictures I shot today. All were shot with a Nikon 50mm F1.4 D lens at f8. ISO held constant at 200. Shutter speeds all above 250. Camera body mounted on a Manfrotto tripod. Shutter with 2 or 10 second time delay. Manual or auto focus is noted in the title of the shot. In the distance shots, all of them were shot with the focus center on the red brick buildings in the slightly left of center in the picture. If there is anything I can add, please let me know. I appreciate your help.

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Dec 7, 2017 18:40:39   #
CO
 
DaveyDitzer wrote:
PS. All of the shots included (above) are JPEG taken directly from the camera chip - no PP.


Since those are JPEG files directly from the camera, there's something to look at. Nikon sets the default sharpening for the picture controls very low at level 3. Nikon expert, Ken Rockwell. recommends going through all of the picture controls and increasing the sharpening to level 6. Is it possible the Df has its sharpening set low while the D5300 has its sharpening set high?

I've always shot with Nikon DSLR cameras that have an anti-aliasing filter - D90, D7000, D610, D750 (I rented the D610 and D750). When I purchased my D500 (no AA filter), I was blown away with the sharpness. I really think the omission of an AA filter makes a difference.

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Dec 7, 2017 20:50:09   #
DaveyDitzer Loc: Western PA
 
CO wrote:
Since those are JPEG files directly from the camera, there's something to look at. Nikon sets the default sharpening for the picture controls very low at level 3. Nikon expert, Ken Rockwell. recommends going through all of the picture controls and increasing the sharpening to level 6. Is it possible the Df has its sharpening set low while the D5300 has its sharpening set high?

I've always shot with Nikon DSLR cameras that have an anti-aliasing filter - D90, D7000, D610, D750 (I rented the D610 and D750). When I purchased my D500 (no AA filter), I was blown away with the sharpness. I really think the omission of an AA filter makes a difference.
Since those are JPEG files directly from the camer... (show quote)


Wow! youi guys are good. Yes, I checked the picture controls and in fact the D5300 sharpening was set very high and several of the Df controls were set lower than mid point. I will try to test again at distance with the increased sharpening. the previous post reporting on the lower crop of the Df is not clear to me. Is there a setting I need to change for this aspect? Again, thanks so much for your help.

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Dec 8, 2017 17:18:35   #
DaveyDitzer Loc: Western PA
 
To "CO" who suggested I look at the sharpness setting in the Picture Control menu - thank you so much. It made notable difference. Conditions weren't great today so I just got one good look and will do a comparison next when the light is better. To all of you who offered helpful analysis - Thank you! To those of you saying you'd never give up your Df, I agree. I won't be giving up on mine either at least I learn to use it correctly. Lastly thank you all. This site is a great help to me.

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Dec 9, 2017 11:20:26   #
Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
 
Kmgw9v wrote:
I am interested in your findings--but I will never concede that the 5300 is a better body than my Df.

The D5300 has higher pixel density which means it can record more detail... if and only if there is enough light to use a low enough ISO value. That will be at approximately ISO 2000 if exposure is perfect. Lower ISO allows more exlosure latitude.

For other considerstions, and particularly in low light with higher ISO values, the Df out performs a D5300 in almost every way.

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Dec 11, 2017 12:49:18   #
cameraf4 Loc: Delaware
 
So, Davey, where do we go from here?

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