CanonTom Loc: Birmingham

Recently started shooting RAW rather than fine JPG. I see the value in preserving the
RAW file as imported into PP program. I also see the value in being able to save the processed RAW file as a RAW file rather than saving as a JPG, allowing the program to convert to JPG only upon export.

A couple of questions and perhaps a little detail for clarification:

Are the "rules" for maintaining such files based upon the windows program (in a windows environment) or is this PP program specific. I would assume its based on windows.......

If Windows rules prevail then could someone or several someone's please give me a short tutorial? Can a RAW file be edited and then saved as a RAW file or must it be converted to JPG at that time? If it must convert to JPG, then can the JPG be saved with all the original RAW detail, less of course that portion that has been deleted by the PP edits?

Examples:

While I have been studying Lightroom tutorials lately I am still far from trusting myself with it to use it exclusively. I had recently taken several shots of my wife that I really like in RAW so I imported them into Picasa which I have used for years. I edited those shots to my satisfaction and liked them so much I decided to "save" them. I used the save button in Picasa (which might have been my undoing). I mistakenly assumed that it would save my edits on either the original or a copy of it and keep the RAW file format and edited size. I ended up with JPG's reduced in size from approx. 20mb RAW to approx 3mb JPG. Prob too small to frame at 11X14! Picasa does claim that every time you make a copy that a pre-edited version is saved but how to find it?

Now its not the end of the world or course. I can take more shots and I do still have the unedited file on the card from the camera..............but how should I have done this? Is this a Picasa problem? I know it has to be human error to some degree.

I need some detailed direction as to how to do this sort of thing correctly. I also want to know how to move an edited RAW file from one computer to another without losing the RAW format, but keeping my edits.

Please weigh in!

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

I use Photoshop for processing my images. I shoot exclusively in RAW. The RAW file remains unchanged during the initial processing in ACR and the final output in my chosen format. During the initial transfer of files from camera to computer, I change the file's attributes to read only. Thus, making it difficult to accidentally delete a RAW file. It can neither be written to or deleted when set to read only.

I also copy the original RAW files to two separate systems as backups, just in case.

Congratulations on your move to using RAW.
--Bob

LarryFitz Loc: Beacon NY

The RAW file is not changed when editing. You can save your edits in anther file format; Photoshop, Tiff, JPEG or several others. TIFF will save with much more data then JPEG. When saving with JPEG normal you can select image size and Quality, keep original image size and highest quality, would provide you with a very good output at 11x14.

Some applications record the edits they you have made, then reapply them went you reopen the RAW file. These files are small and are stored on your system. If you transfer images to another system and want the edits, you need to move both the RAW and the edit file. Check were your application stores the edit file.

CanonTom Loc: Birmingham

Thank you for the response. Please tell me how you convert to read only and please tell me, can you copy a read only file for further editing? I assume you would have to convert that file from read only after copying (assuming you can do that) before editing.....Please elaborate on how this is done in more detail. I am not that computer literate it seems.

CanonTom Loc: Birmingham

Interesting. Then my RAW files as well as my original edits are still on my computer somewhere? Not sure how to find them. The original file I did find. The edits I do not know how to isolate. Will attempt to find. Thanks.

JR45 Loc: Montgomery County, TX

There should be an option on the save screen to "save as file type" on some such.
The easiest way to get to another computer is to copy to a flash drive, then copy to
the second system.
I usually print from a TIFF file.

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

Tom, using Windows Explorer go to the directory in which your image files are saved. Press the Ctrl and the letter A at the same time. This will select all of the files in that directory. Once the files are selected, right click on any one of them. A window will open. Properties is listed at the bottom of that window. Left click on that. You should see two check boxes towards the bottom in a section labeled Attributes. The check box labeled Read-only is the one you want to left click in the check box. That will change those files highlighted to read only.
--Bob

LarryFitz Loc: Beacon NY

This is program dependent. check your program help files. What is "PP" the you are using?

Dngallagher Loc: Wilmington De.

FWIW - I made the jump to Lightroom 4-5 years ago, at the time I was using Apple Aperture and thought it was great, but Apple decided to end support for Aperture, so I switched right away to Lightroom using Adobe's Creative Cloud program that gave me Lightroom, Bridge, and Photoshop for $10.00 a month. Great bargain in my opinion.

Moving from Aperture to Lightroom was fairly easy for me since both programs operate as Digital Asset Managers to maintain a library of images, and as a "parametric editor" meaning the edits are not based on actual image pixels, but instead based on parameters applied to the original image.

If you shoot raw, any change made to the file is not really a change, just a parameter that is applied to create the view you want - the underlying original file still remains intact.

To answer your question about saving as a raw file - with Lightroom there is NO SAVE or SAVE AS.... when you edit an image in the Develop module and make a change, the parameter or edit is written to the Lightroom catalog and applied to the image to show the view. You can set Lightroom to write your edits to a "sidecar file" - a very small file containing the XMP instructions to apply to the file - the original raw file is not touched. IF you choose to convert your camera raw files into a DNG file, then there will be no sidecar files, instead Lightroom can write directly to the DNG file, so your raw data is inside untouched and the XMP parameters are written within the DNG file as well.

Moving raw files from one computer to another is simple - COPY the file - your edits are NOT within the raw file, but will be within a separate file, a "sidecar file" with the same name but an extension of XMP. If you copy only the raw file, it is the original file, if you copy the raw file and the XMP file, then you have the original with your edits.

If you do not set Lightroom to write the edits to sidecar files then they will only be stored within your Lightroom catalog - meaning you would need to either EXPORT your finished photo as a JPG or other image format OR, force the creation of a sidecar file from within Lightroom from a menu selection or a keyboard shortcut.

CanonTom Loc: Birmingham

Ah yes! A very detailed response which I can likely follow! Thank you. This type of handholding is what I need! Tks again!
Tom

CanonTom Loc: Birmingham

Was using Picasa which I used for years. About to take the leap to better program but wanted to edit these particular files quickly so I used the program I knew. Could not believe it saved as JPG without instructions and downsized the original so much. That alone is enough to move on and up. Looking at Lightroom, ON1 and another or so. Will make move soon.

Thanks. Tom

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

The raw data cannot be edited and saved in a way that permanently overwrites the original data in an unrecoverable method. Some tools like Canon's DPP can save edits into the CR2 raw file that is Canon specific. But those edits are actually 'extensions' to the data within the file and are known only to DPP. Other software tools working on the DPP-edited files do not see this extended data.

Many editors can create a 'sidecar' file with extension 'xmp' such that you'd have image001.cr2 and image001.xmp. The xmp files may / may not be useful to other RAW editors.

Other than you're having usage problems with Picasa, I don't understand your question about windows rules? As said above, the RAW file cannot be permanently corrupted. That said, you don't want to lose your edits made on the RAW. You may output a JPEG or a TIFF and you should still have the original ingredients of the RAW file. But, you also need the receipe applied to the RAW when creating the JPEG / TIFF output. So, you'll need to investigate Picasa to see where / if RAW edits are maintained. In LR they're in the catalog as LR exists to maintain a database of all edit actions made on all images imported to the LR catalog.

A google of Picasa and RAW editing should take you to the product documentation and / or references on the internet that explain how and where this tool maintains the history of edits made on a RAW file. Overall, I think you should be going all-in on LR and moving on in your journey ...

rdubreuil Loc: Dummer, NH USA

A raw file is a raw file. Most if not all PP programs are none destructive and use a side car file for the modifications made to the raw data which is why after processing one would export the format of their choice like jpeg, tiff or png. The raw file remains intact and can be processed countless times. I hope this helps you out, good luck and happy shooting.

CanonTom Loc: Birmingham

Overall, I think you are correct on moving on. Picasa, like other free programs never offered any real support and now that it has been abandoned, little is being written about it by anybody. My limited understanding of the Picasa edits is that they are maintained in a separate file which is somehow associated with the original unedited file. While I have the original RAW files still on the camera's card, I do not want to re-edit them, I want to recover the edited RAW files. Everything I am reading makes me believe that it can be done if I can just figure out how. I have learned one thing for sure. I made the assumption that I could save the edited RAW files and that they would be original size CR2 files. There may have been that option available somewhere but I did not see or think of that. I ended up with greatly reduced in size JPGs. And I know darned well that I specifically told the program to maintain original size!

Regardless, thanks too, for the suggestions as to how to find what I am looking for in Picasa. I will attempt to do so. And if I have to I can and will re-edit those original RAW files.......I just know that they will not be exactly the same as before.....but who knows maybe I will like the re-do's even better!?

rgrenaderphoto Loc: Hollywood, CA

The simplest solution is to use a non destructive editing program like Lightroom, which saves your edits in the catalogue and leaves the original file untouched. Opening RAW files in Photoshop requires copying the original file to an open source format like Adobe's DNG or TIFF via Adobe Camera RAW. If you are concerned about preserving your RAW files in an archive, after importing them into an editing program (like Lightroom) copy them via File Explorer off the camera memory card to another folder on another drive.

GOing through the complexity of marking files as Read Only in Windows is really more effort than a separate storage folder and not totally necessary. But, if you want to, in File Explorer, highlight a Read Only file, right click and under Preferences you'll see a check box at the bottom under Attributes labeled Read-only. Check it and select Apply or OK. This will get frustrating as you attempt to edit a file and forget that it is read only until you go to save.

And, strive to get comfortable with Lightroom, it is, after all, an Application specifically written for Photographers. Remember it is, at its heart, an image cataloguing program, so once you drink the koolaid, forget moving files in File Explorer. It will only confuse Lightroom.