BrentHarder Loc: Southern California

Thanks for the encouragement Beercat. Since I am retired, I really don't need the money for the wedding photos. So far, I have only done the shoots for favors. Each shoot is a learning experience. Thanks for all the tips Beercat. I appreciate it.

BrentHarder Loc: Southern California

cjc2, now I'm confused.......Beercat says NO flash and you say YES flash! I suppose you have to shoot it both ways and find out for yourself which you prefer.
On this shoot, I didn't use a flash even though I did bring 2 speed lights with a reflective umbrella and stand and also a softbox and stand. My problem with those are they seem to be in the way (in the photo) at times and it is difficult to set them up then have the people stay there without moving......

BrentHarder Loc: Southern California

cjc2, I like the idea of staying with sports and portraits too......muçh more than weddings. It seems with weddings there are certain shots that are expected .....i.e. cutting the cake, tossing the garter, the kiss at the alter etc that are to be perfect. It seems like a lot of pressure would be on expecially if you screw up.

BrentHarder Loc: Southern California

Wakko12, it's comforting that I'm not alone! Thanks for sharing your first solo shoot too. I am not an agressive kind of guy so taking control is not something that I like to do. I'd much rather be sitting in the background with a long lens and shoot a wedding without anyone knowing I'm there. Directing people is not something that I enjoy doing.

cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA

You got it exactly Brent. My points are that it is not a good idea to go to a wedding as the sole, or primary, shooter with no experience. As with anything else, a little common sense goes a long long way. I would NEVER use a flash during a ceremony, but I would use flash for most everything else, especially portraits, both outside and in. It can be a bitch getting both the white dress and black tux to render properly. Much rather shoot surfers (none in PA) as they don't talk back! Leave the weddings to the crazies who actually enjoy doing them, and I am referring to those who do them well. I have a couple of friends that are fantastic wedding folks. More power to them. I'll stick with sports! Best of luck.

BrentHarder Loc: Southern California

Thanks cjc2 for your thoughts on this. Fortunately, I don't do this for a living. It's so nice to be able to shoot whatever and whenever I want without any "client" telling me what to do.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Hi, Brent!

Thanks again for posting your first solo wedding shoot! Just to echo, Jerry's thought, nobody is here to "rip-apart" anyone's work. Submitting you work for critique is a great and time-honored learning experience for everyone concerned- the submitting photographer, the critics and others who are reading on and learning- we all benefit!

First- here is the good news: The bride and groom have a decent body of work to commemorate their wedding day- nice expressions count! With a bit of editing, you can create an improved version. Even J-pegs can be somewhat corrected as to contrast, density and color saturation.

Here are some nuts and bolts shooting tips for your next event:

You have a number of shots that are foreshortened or distorted. This kind of distortion causes the subjects to seem disproportionately short. This results form using a wide angle lens or zoom focal length setting and/or shooting down at full length subjects. For full-length portraits and group shots, you camera should be at the subject's waist-level and a normal to slightly longer that norm lens of zoom setting should be used. Theses focal lengths are no less than 35mm on a crop-sensor body and 50mm on a full frame camera. For 3/4 length and close-up portraits the camera should be at the subject's eye level or slightly above eye level for good perspective of the face. A normal or slightly longer focal length for theses portraits is advisable. When wide angle lenses are used for general shots, candids, and groups when space is extremely restrictive, it is especially important to observe correct camera position to avoid as much distortion as possible, that is, rather than pointing the camera up or down toward the subject, keeping it level and compensating for too much "sky or ground" in cropping.

Gown and train management: Brides invest lots of time, effort and money in the selection of their wedding attire. It is important to put on your "fashion photographer's hat" when arranging the gown and train. First rule is good posture and placing the train where the designer intended it to to, that is, behind the dress. It is a common mistake to yank the train forward of the skirt of the dress in full length shots. You can show the train in a wider view or in a back profile. Keep the train flowing in a clan sweeping line.

In all full length poses, have the subjects place their weight on the hip furthest from the camera and extend their forward leg and foot forward with that knee bent. This makes for better posture and improves the shoulder line in 3/4 and close-up views as well. This also gives shape to the skirt to the dress and makes for better posture in the groom and male bridal party members too. Pay close attention to detail like the way jackets are hanging on the guys or anything that appears sloppy or ill fitting. Usually good posture and a bit of adjustment will remedy most of theses problems.

Portraiture principles: There as been a trend toward a more photo-journalistic or causal approach to wedding photography. I agree with theses approaches for many of the shots and scenarios in a wedding coverage, however, for formal portraits, some of the old school and time-honored portrait principles should be learned, mastered and applied. Theses principles of posing, lighting and camera technique, need not be stiff or unnatural and in fact, the art lies in creating natural and elegant images that are posed but nonetheless look perfectly natural. Fact is, folks want to look at their best in their wedding pictures and mastering. the basics of formal portraiture is the key to that goal. My advice- Google "Joseph Zeltsman" portraiture lessons. This series is as old as dirt but it is the most through and exacting portraiture lessons that is still online. It delves into camera positions, facial structure and camera angles , poses and lighting like nothing else and once the basics are learned, you can adapt lots of this for fast and efficient shooting at weddings.

The FLASH controversy: Flash usage has always been debatable. If used correctly, multiple/off camera flash lighting can help produce some outstanding results, providing you know exactly how to use it and exactly hoe and where how to place the lights. The skill use of fleas fill with out of door or existing lightning situations can be utilized to produce totally natural results that in no way look like flat flash shots.

Many photographers and church officials dislike flash photography, during ceremonies, due to its distraction during solemn events. In my particular geographic location we have long Winters with short periods of daylight and some of the old churches we operate in are very dark. Out of door ceremonies are not as common and are limited to late Spring, Summer and early Fall months. Even as ISO 3200 and fast lenses we would be hard pressed to get decent aisle shots or some of the traditional ceremony shots. So...I secure permission and use flash sparingly. In more modern churches with a good mixture of natural and existing light, I too prefer available light during ceremonies.

I hope this helps.

justhercamera Loc: NW Michigan

Thank you for taking the time/effort with your thoughts and knowledge. I am going to be spending some time with the lessons of Joseph Zeltsman very soon. Your description for posture in full length poses I used recently while doing some senior photos. I know I lack in being able to pose subjects and I was getting frustrated with what I was seeing. Then I remembered that pose/posture from past reading and immediately her look completely changed and I was much happier with the results (and so was she!)

Sue

jaysnave Loc: Central Ohio

Hi Brent,

You have so much advise already there is not much I can add however thank you for posting and asking for critique. I have enjoyed your surf and beach shots over the past few years. If you want to do more weddings I would suggest getting some practice in photographing couples and groups and get comfortable with your approach to different lighting challenges. You had some back lighting situations in your posted photos that can only be solved with use of flash or very high ISOs. Inside is a totally different situation but improvement really only comes with practice, making mistakes and learning from them. As for the use of flash issue, I have found that if you talk with the officiant and let them know you will respect the ceremony and not become the center of attention then it can be worked out. My last wedding, the priest allowed flash photography IF I positioned myself in the first empty pew and only came out to get the shot and return. It all worked out even when I dropped down to the level of the flower girl coming down the Isle and returned to my pew and back out again for the next bridesmaid. Full disclosure I was disappointed that I was not fast and agile enough to get sharp focus on that bridesmaid.

Beercat Loc: Central Coast of California

When the Jedi Master (Ed) talks .... I listen. Yup gleaned a few suggestions :)

jaysnave Loc: Central Ohio

Good title for Ed.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

One thing that I forgot to mention, especially for the rookies and new and aspiring wedding shooters out there is TIME MANAGEMENT at weddings.

Wedding photography can be a difficult and somewhat stressful job, especially for newcomers to the business,when the photographer has to work in unreasonably limited time frames. Of course for photo-journalistic shots, it behooves the photographer to always be at the right pace at the right time to capture all the highlights of the day. It is important to learn all of the wedding formats, religious, traditional and cultural aspects of all the kinds of wedding you are likely to cover. The alert shooter has to be at the ready at all times, be able to anticipate the action and shoot decisively. When, however, the formal portraits and groups have to be made, working under unreasonably rushed circumstances can be avoided or entirely precluded with the right degree of advance planning Usually, some time can be put aside between the ceremony and the reception for a formal session to take place.

In my own case, I try to arrange for a place where the couple and their immediate families and the bridal party can be somewhat isolated from the onslaught of guests with cameras and cell phones- this is to avoid the distraction and waste of valuable time that all that additional picture taking and kibitzing that the "cell phone paparazzi" can bring about. I try to get a minimum of an hour but even if there is less time to spare, at least I know exactly how much time has been allotted to me and am prepared to work within those limits. Usually, however, I get one to two full hours. In some cases, I will do the bride's formals prior to the ceremony. Some couples, nowadays, consent to see each other prior to the ceremony so that the bulk of the formals can be done early in the day and there will be more time for uninterrupted festivities. The benefits of a very organized schedule for the formals are many. Folks get to be photographed when they are still fresh well before dancing and all the other festivities begin. The photographer can work more carefully, pay attention to every detail without rushing. Working in a relaxed atmosphere is more fun for the bridal party and better expression can be more easily be captured.

I usually start off with the larger groups and work my way down through the smaller groups. At one point, I send the family members off to the reception and remain with the bride and groom I can secure more romantic shots without an audience in that some level privacy is an important factor in capturing authentic expressions. I certainly do not want to be a "wedding dictator" and run the entire affair but I do emphasize, to photographers that I am training, that they must be able to command attention, give direction and control things when they are shooting formals or the odd shot that the need to pose during the day's events. This is where the people skills come into play. Personally, I find that when I do theses organized formal sessions, do not need to interrupt the festivities or become an ongoing pain in the backside for the couple and their bridal party, they are only too pleased to cooperate with me and my crew during the event. They know we are working hard on their behalf, treating them with kindness and want to deliver our best work.

When photographers do not engage in this kind of advanced planning and just show up at wedding, they are laying booby-traps for themselves and causing self inflicted stress.

Wedding photography requires multiple skills sets to the extent that many newcomers may not as yet realize. We need to excerpt skills and techniques from fine portraiture, photojournalism, fashion photography, commercial (still life and architectural) work, special effects photography and more. We need to be photographer, picture editor, retoucher, business and promotional manager and PR man or woman all rolled up in one. I certainly won't hurt if you can sew up a ripped seam, fix a stubborn zipper, pin on a corsage or a boutonniere, repair a somewhat out of shape bouquet, know what to do with a can of hairspray or comfort a nervous bride. If you compare your job to a cinematography crew, you are director of photography, director, camera operator, gaffer, lighting technician, prop and costume master or mistress, editor, and exhibitor. BIG JOB! You might even end up as an emergency wedding planner and psychologist! BE PREPARED!

The most important thing to understand is that regardless of your level of experience and expertise, wedding photography and professional photography in general is an ongoing learning process and effort. There is always something new to learn or something old to renew. Don't allow yourself to fall into a rut- that gets boring! Whenever I learn a new technique or method, get an new lens or a gadget, I get excited employ it out on my next job- it keeps me lively and interested. Another self-imposed head game I impose on myself is that I am my own worst unforgiving critic. I review each job and a make a note of anything I don't like- no excuses- even it is not my fault! It could be a pose, a lighting, a shot I forgot to make, whatever! The stuff that is not my fault, I use to create new policies in terms of planning, relationships with other vendors or church officials etc. and of course, the clients.

crazydaddio Loc: Toronto Ontario Canada

Agree on flash during a ceremony....except when the couple wants it :-)
I have used it during ther ceremony and my last wedding, I used 6 speedlights on 9' stands to "light the cave" and 1 on top of camera for the aisl walk.
....all with Bride's permission having shown her what to expect with and without when we went together to visit the venue. I brought the lighted setup and shot some test fires
along with shots of no lighting. I pp'd both sets,sent them to her... and she said "light me up !! " :-)
...need to get a good battery powered monolight....was still able to get the settings done on the speedlights in a way that minimized shadows. Ceiling bounce ensured shadows were reduced/eliminated behind subjects.
Hope no one is offended but I am posting a couple shots since it is relevant to the topic of flash during the ceremony which aligned to the OPs post. critique is wlecome!!
Color too green? edit out the bag bottom left in photo 1? should I vignette photo#2 a little?

(and thanks to the OP for posting ...need more of you around here to keep this section having good discussions....

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BrentHarder Loc: Southern California

So sorry everyone for not responding to the posts that you have sent in. My mother has been in the hospital since Monday and the doctors give her one week to live. It's been very draining recently and I don't really have the energy left to adequetly give responses to you all. I do appreciate the very professional advice that you have given regarding wedding photography...... thank you all for that.

cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA

Very sorry to hear that Brent. Our best to your family and your mom.