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Can't get my mind around ND vs CPL vs GND lens choices. Please help.
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Sep 27, 2017 11:35:29   #
cmc65
 
Until now I have avoided shooting the ocean because I have not been successful in understanding when or the best way to choose one of these filter for excessive glare off the water. Then the waves from Maria started coming in and one look made me realize I need to learn this skill. The waves really weren't that much bigger than an old fashioned Nor'Easter that we' had in the past but yesterday's high tide was mid day and the sky was relatively clear so the glare was strong and I was ' dead in the water' so to speak as to how to handle it. I had he 5dsr mounted on the 100-400 lens on the tripod and the 7dmk2 with the 18-135 had held. I did ok (just) getting focus but the glare was huge. Anyone with tips on this problem would be appreciated.

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Sep 27, 2017 11:43:50   #
f8lee Loc: New Mexico
 
Well, ND filters have no effect on glare - they are essentially "sunglasses" that reduce all light entering the lens for the purpose of enabling you to use a slower shutter speed or larger aperture than the lighting conditions would allow otherwise. CPL filters are the only type that will reduce glare.

Polarizing filters' effects are dependent on the angle of the sun to the subject to your camera, so for instance if the sun is directly in front of your position a CPL will do very little. If the sun is 90 degrees to your left or right as you view the ocean, then the CPL can reduce glare on smooth surfaces (as well as intensify the blue of the sky, which can make the clouds "pop" more). That said, however, if water is choppy I don't know how much glare reduction you would experience, since an irregular surface may well prove to have so many tiny reflective surfaces all in different orientations to you the CPL's effect is questionable. When one is used in a shot where a lake's surface is smooth thanks to still winds, it can be of great value, but non-smooth surfaces pose some different challenges.

Anyway, for your purpose a CPL is the only possible solution, if it works at all.

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Sep 27, 2017 12:09:50   #
Reinaldokool Loc: San Rafael, CA
 
f8lee wrote:
Well, ND filters have no effect on glare - they are essentially "sunglasses" that reduce all light entering the lens for the purpose of enabling you to use a slower shutter speed or larger aperture than the lighting conditions would allow otherwise. CPL filters are the only type that will reduce glare.

Polarizing filters' effects are dependent on the angle of the sun to the subject to your camera, so for instance if the sun is directly in front of your position a CPL will do very little. If the sun is 90 degrees to your left or right as you view the ocean, then the CPL can reduce glare on smooth surfaces (as well as intensify the blue of the sky, which can make the clouds "pop" more). That said, however, if water is choppy I don't know how much glare reduction you would experience, since an irregular surface may well prove to have so many tiny reflective surfaces all in different orientations to you the CPL's effect is questionable. When one is used in a shot where a lake's surface is smooth thanks to still winds, it can be of great value, but non-smooth surfaces pose some different challenges.

Anyway, for your purpose a CPL is the only possible solution, if it works at all.
Well, ND filters have no effect on glare - they ar... (show quote)


This is all correct. However there is one way that the CPL may help even in very choppy waters. When light is reflected from a surface at an angle that physicists call the Brewster's angle, it becomes completely polarized. That angle, to be completely accurate has to be calculated but it is almost always somewhere around 35-55 degrees in situations we care about. What this means is that in choppy water, some of the reflective surfaces will likely fall into this category and your cpl, while not helping for most of the scene, may reduce the crazy chop in the image. It is worth a try. This is why, sometimes a cpl will allow you to view through a window that has reflections. Also why fisherpeople use polarized glasses to see the fish. Doesn't always help, but sometimes.

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Sep 27, 2017 12:15:08   #
Reinaldokool Loc: San Rafael, CA
 
cmc65 wrote:
Until now I have avoided shooting the ocean because I have not been successful in understanding when or the best way to choose one of these filter for excessive glare off the water. Then the waves from Maria started coming in and one look made me realize I need to learn this skill. The waves really weren't that much bigger than an old fashioned Nor'Easter that we' had in the past but yesterday's high tide was mid day and the sky was relatively clear so the glare was strong and I was ' dead in the water' so to speak as to how to handle it. I had he 5dsr mounted on the 100-400 lens on the tripod and the 7dmk2 with the 18-135 had held. I did ok (just) getting focus but the glare was huge. Anyone with tips on this problem would be appreciated.
Until now I have avoided shooting the ocean becaus... (show quote)


Depending on sky conditions, the GND filter may help by reducing the light value of the sky, while allowing that from the horizon on down to be full. It would be like shooting the sky at f16 but the nearby subjects at f4. (F-stops only example, of course) This can actually provide some spectacular images.

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Sep 27, 2017 12:15:22   #
Paul J. Svetlik Loc: Colorado
 
Without actually seeing your picture, it is not possible to suggest what you can try.
For relatively small areas in motion and reflecting too much light, filters probably will not work.
However, in some PP programs you may look for something like a brightness/contrast and shadows/highlights controls - if that would be any help?
Good Luck!

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Sep 27, 2017 12:39:54   #
rgrenaderphoto Loc: Hollywood, CA
 
A CPL will only work at a 90 deg angle to the sun; behind and in front of you will not have any effect. A graduated ND will allow you to drop the light from the sky a few stops to allow better exposure on the water. Works really well when the sky is almost blown out from glare.

Be careful with cheap ND filters, as they lack a coating and can add a green cast to the sky.

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Sep 27, 2017 14:14:31   #
G Brown Loc: Sunny Bognor Regis West Sussex UK
 
Now you know why there are 'Golden Hour's'.....Not that it helps.....

If you look at seascape images you will see how people take advantage of that silvering effect to create stunning pictures. Like people take portraits (using different or no accessories) it is a learning curve rather than an instant fix.

The advice you have been given is good - but now you have to learn to work it.

PS
a CPL also works wonders in woodland creating additional saturation from glossy leaves etc.

Have fun

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Sep 27, 2017 14:36:30   #
Steve Perry Loc: Sylvania, Ohio
 
You need a polarizer. It will help - I did a video that covers what they are and how to use them that you might find helpful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMOsBG2JaZY

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Sep 28, 2017 06:08:01   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
cmc65 wrote:
Until now I have avoided shooting the ocean because I have not been successful in understanding when or the best way to choose one of these filter for excessive glare off the water. Then the waves from Maria started coming in and one look made me realize I need to learn this skill. The waves really weren't that much bigger than an old fashioned Nor'Easter that we' had in the past but yesterday's high tide was mid day and the sky was relatively clear so the glare was strong and I was ' dead in the water' so to speak as to how to handle it. I had he 5dsr mounted on the 100-400 lens on the tripod and the 7dmk2 with the 18-135 had held. I did ok (just) getting focus but the glare was huge. Anyone with tips on this problem would be appreciated.
Until now I have avoided shooting the ocean becaus... (show quote)


Depending exactly what you mean by "glare," a CPL could be just what the doctor ordered. You get the best results when the sun is at a 90° angle to the camera. I'm giving you a lot of links for polarizing filters, so pick and choose.

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2017/09/my-not-nearly-complete-but-rather-entertaining-circular-polarizer-filter-article/
http://www.lenstip.com/139.25-article-Polarizing_filters_test_2015_Results_and_summary.html
http://www.techradar.com/how-to/photography-video-capture/cameras/best-circular-polarizer-filter-5-top-models-tested-and-rated-1320842
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Circular-Polarizer-Filters.aspx
http://www.lenstip.com/index.php?art=139

http://www.lenstip.com/115.1-article-Polarizing_filters_test.html
http://www.lenstip.com/115.4-article-Polarizing_filters_test_Results_and_summary.html

Using -
http://nikonrumors.com/2014/07/26/how-to-use-a-polarizing-filter.aspx/
https://photography.tutsplus.com/tutorials/how-when-and-why-to-use-a-polarizing-filter--photo-1398
https://digital-photography-school.com/how-to-use-and-buy-polarizing-filters/
https://improvephotography.com/333/tips-photography-circular-polarizer/
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/polarizing-filters.htm

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Sep 28, 2017 07:27:33   #
mborn Loc: Massachusetts
 
Steve Perry wrote:
You need a polarizer. It will help - I did a video that covers what they are and how to use them that you might find helpful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMOsBG2JaZY



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Sep 28, 2017 08:57:10   #
kymarto Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy
 
rgrenaderphoto wrote:
A CPL will only work at a 90 deg angle to the sun; behind and in front of you will not have any effect. A graduated ND will allow you to drop the light from the sky a few stops to allow better exposure on the water. Works really well when the sky is almost blown out from glare.

Be careful with cheap ND filters, as they lack a coating and can add a green cast to the sky.


To be more precise polarizing filters work at their maximum when at the correct orientation (rotation) at a 90 degree angle from a light source. At lesser angles the effect is lessened progressively as the angle approaches 0 degrees.

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Sep 28, 2017 11:09:14   #
ballsafire Loc: Lafayette, Louisiana
 
cmc65 wrote:
Until now I have avoided shooting the ocean because I have not been successful in understanding when or the best way to choose one of these filter for excessive glare off the water. Then the waves from Maria started coming in and one look made me realize I need to learn this skill. The waves really weren't that much bigger than an old fashioned Nor'Easter that we' had in the past but yesterday's high tide was mid day and the sky was relatively clear so the glare was strong and I was ' dead in the water' so to speak as to how to handle it. I had he 5dsr mounted on the 100-400 lens on the tripod and the 7dmk2 with the 18-135 had held. I did ok (just) getting focus but the glare was huge. Anyone with tips on this problem would be appreciated.
Until now I have avoided shooting the ocean becaus... (show quote)


If I were in the same predicament, I would notice the time of day and shoot early in the morning or late in the evening and there would be no need for filters; your photos would be very beautiful. No need to fight the light!

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Sep 28, 2017 16:16:20   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
cmc65 wrote:
Until now I have avoided shooting the ocean because I have not been successful in understanding when or the best way to choose one of these filter for excessive glare off the water. Then the waves from Maria started coming in and one look made me realize I need to learn this skill. The waves really weren't that much bigger than an old fashioned Nor'Easter that we' had in the past but yesterday's high tide was mid day and the sky was relatively clear so the glare was strong and I was ' dead in the water' so to speak as to how to handle it. I had he 5dsr mounted on the 100-400 lens on the tripod and the 7dmk2 with the 18-135 had held. I did ok (just) getting focus but the glare was huge. Anyone with tips on this problem would be appreciated.
Until now I have avoided shooting the ocean becaus... (show quote)


Polarizers for glare reduction... They work best at 90-degrees to the sun. Turn the movable ring for best effect.

Neutral density filters reduce overall exposure. They allow slower shutter speeds, and/or wider apertures at the same ISO. When using a dSLR or mirrorless to record video, they are a virtual necessity.

Graduated neutral density filters are for darkening skies, principally. They are best used in a slide-in, rotatable, square filter holder that allows vertical movement, so you can tune the effect to the composition.

Your best course for further understanding is to go try all three devices in live situations.

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Sep 28, 2017 17:56:48   #
Reinaldokool Loc: San Rafael, CA
 
Steve Perry wrote:
You need a polarizer. It will help - I did a video that covers what they are and how to use them that you might find helpful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMOsBG2JaZY


Great video. You said, and showed, exactly what I was trying to say, but did it so much better. Also kudos on your audio. Many Youtube videos have very poor audio quality and even poorer enunciation. Fantastic job.

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Sep 28, 2017 18:32:26   #
sodapop Loc: Bel Air, MD
 
Absolutely stunning professional video. Big help. Thanks for sharing this.

Steve Perry wrote:
You need a polarizer. It will help - I did a video that covers what they are and how to use them that you might find helpful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMOsBG2JaZY

Reply
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