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Is aperture and shutter priority obsolete?
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Sep 27, 2017 21:51:10   #
srt101fan
 
John Gerlach wrote:
In the beginning of my career - tens of thousands of moons ago - I primarily used spot metering with slide film. I shot manually, meter some important tone,
compensated for the reflectance and did well. But digital made it easier.
I used to use the RGB histogram and ETTR. But, often a small amount of highlights was difficult to detect on the histogram, so the last three years I simply go by the highlight alert and add light until the first blinkies appear and typically go with that and do great.
I shoot RAW only, so the first blinkies do not mean anything is overexposed,
just getting close. Remember the histogram and highlight alert in-camera come from the embedded JPEG in a RAW file, and they indicate overexposure before the RAW data is truly overexposed. I am "older than mud" as some kids I know say,
and in need of eye surgery, so I find flashing highlights much easier to see than tiny bits of data on the histogram curve. So far, over 250,000 images, it has worked just fine.,
and it is so easy. Though, you could have some tone problems if your subject is largely one color, such as all red.

Glad to be of help with the thread. Just trying to help spread the word on a far more useful way to use automatic exposure, and that indeed is what it is. Still, I would never use it when I am doing floating blind photography (my favorite type of wildlife photography by far) as having birds swim from a light blue background to a dark green one or having a duck with lots of white feathers continually change how much white occupies the image by moving closer or further away would be a disaster, or at least not nearly as precise. There, full manual exposure reigns supreme. And I don't mean to beat up aperture-priority, but I have no idea why any photographer would want to have to deal with its problems needlessly, especially in wildlife photography. I tried to embrace it on this past safari in Kenya, and I ended up abandoning it to move on to a much better method that many of you already knew. I was a little late to the "party", but then I shot Canon and only recently has EC become available on some models. By the way, I now just use Evaluative all the time and go with the highlight alert indicator. I find Evaluative ( A canon term I think) gets you pretty close nearly all of the time. Seldom to I have to use EC by more than plus or minus 1 stop.
In the beginning of my career - tens of thousands ... (show quote)



John, thank you very much for your response. I'm not new to photography, having done some black & white film work in my younger years, but in transitioning to digital I sort of stayed at the "aim & shoot" stage without seriously exploiting the capabilities of these wonderful instruments. So I'm trying to break out of my rut and trying to "make" not just "take" pictures. I recently changed to back-button focusing on my Nikon, and am trying out M with Auto ISO. I think it's the way for me to go for most of my shooting. But I'm still working on the metering mode, hence the question I asked you. Your response is very encouraging and I thank you for sharing your expertise and insights.

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Sep 28, 2017 10:40:19   #
John Gerlach Loc: Island Park, Idaho
 
You are most welcome! These cameras are fabulous, and only getting better with each new generation.
srt101fan wrote:
John, thank you very much for your response. I'm not new to photography, having done some black & white film work in my younger years, but in transitioning to digital I sort of stayed at the "aim & shoot" stage without seriously exploiting the capabilities of these wonderful instruments. So I'm trying to break out of my rut and trying to "make" not just "take" pictures. I recently changed to back-button focusing on my Nikon, and am trying out M with Auto ISO. I think it's the way for me to go for most of my shooting. But I'm still working on the metering mode, hence the question I asked you. Your response is very encouraging and I thank you for sharing your expertise and insights.
John, thank you very much for your response. I'm ... (show quote)

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Sep 28, 2017 18:45:08   #
georgiapeach2 Loc: Georgia the Peach State
 
John Gerlach wrote:
That is exactly how I look at it. I would rather have noise and a sharp image,
than less noise and a soft image which I would certainly delete immediately.


I have in the past thrown away nice sharp pictures because of noise, I may start to consider not to be so picky about noise.

Hildegard

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Sep 29, 2017 23:11:00   #
D.T.
 
Hi John-
I use a Sony Alpha 7S with my vintage lenses so I am always manual for focus and aperture. In 90% of my shots, I put the ISO on auto with a range.. I usually put the minimum at 100 and a maximum about 2-6,000. I use the exposure comp settings to adjust my subject vs. the background light available.
So far, I am pleased with the results.

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Sep 30, 2017 07:29:39   #
Tet68survivor Loc: Pomfret Center CT
 
D.T. wrote:
Hi John-
I use a Sony Alpha 7S with my vintage lenses so I am always manual for focus and aperture. In 90% of my shots, I put the ISO on auto with a range.. I usually put the minimum at 100 and a maximum about 2-6,000. I use the exposure comp settings to adjust my subject vs. the background light available.
So far, I am pleased with the results.


Well John all I can say is, you most likely know more about camera response to settings than most if us! As an Amateur, I am quite a bit envious, but I'm learning more each day! Don't lose the ability, pass it on!

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Sep 30, 2017 20:46:35   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
Tet68survivor wrote:
Well John all I can say is, you most likely know more about camera response to settings than most if us! As an Amateur, I am quite a bit envious, but I'm learning more each day! Don't lose the ability, pass it on!

What settings you use are highly dependent on two things
(1) noise on your camera at each ISO level.
(2) your tolerance for noise.

So, appropriate levels for you are something only you can determine, by trying your camera at various ISO settings.

As I indicated several pages back, I would be hard-pressed to make good use of this method right now, because I'm willing to use my cameras only in a very limited ISO setting band. Right now I'm using a Pentax K-30. but for a mere $1K I could purchase a Pentax KP, which is quickly earning a reputation for handling higher ISO values in a very graceful manner. Ever since the KP was announced, I've been looking forward to a world in which going to higher ISO values might provide new solutions to old problems ... and this might be another one of those.

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Oct 1, 2017 09:51:07   #
John Gerlach Loc: Island Park, Idaho
 
Yes, having the capability to use higher ISOs that aren't too noisy is a blessing. I think camera makers are embracing AUto ISO now that ISOs are so much better on newer cameras. Of course, those with older cameras may not be able to successfully do this yet, so reason enough to upgrade!
rehess wrote:
What settings you use are highly dependent on two things
(1) noise on your camera at each ISO level.
(2) your tolerance for noise.

So, appropriate levels for you are something only you can determine, by trying your camera at various ISO settings.

As I indicated several pages back, I would be hard-pressed to make good use of this method right now, because I'm willing to use my cameras only in a very limited ISO setting band. Right now I'm using a Pentax K-30. but for a mere $1K I could purchase a Pentax KP, which is quickly earning a reputation for handling higher ISO values in a very graceful manner. Ever since the KP was announced, I've been looking forward to a world in which going to higher ISO values might provide new solutions to old problems ... and this might be another one of those.
What settings you use are highly dependent on two ... (show quote)

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Oct 1, 2017 12:30:07   #
crazydaddio Loc: Toronto Ontario Canada
 
John Gerlach wrote:
Yes, having the capability to use higher ISOs that aren't too noisy is a blessing. I think camera makers are embracing AUto ISO now that ISOs are so much better on newer cameras. Of course, those with older cameras may not be able to successfully do this yet, so reason enough to upgrade!


Yep. My 2 upgrade decisions were both driven primarily for IQ ....and low noise high iso capability was the main reason for both. (AF for sports helped with the 5DmkIV since it could handle almost everything in 1 body but was not the main reason)

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Oct 17, 2017 14:56:36   #
Alley7
 
John,
Tried this and it works great on my 5D Mark 1V. My question is in Africa using your above system, what metering did you keep your camera on for wildlife? Some experts vary from Evaluative, Partial to even spot in some cases. I haven't had a whole lot of luck with Evaul with often the background being washed out. Shooting Canon EF 100-400 f/4 ll.
Thanks,
John A,
Seattle WA

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Oct 17, 2017 18:51:15   #
blackest Loc: Ireland
 
John Gerlach wrote:
Yes, having the capability to use higher ISOs that aren't too noisy is a blessing. I think camera makers are embracing AUto ISO now that ISOs are so much better on newer cameras. Of course, those with older cameras may not be able to successfully do this yet, so reason enough to upgrade!


You got me shooting TAV mode and i like the results at iso values i wouldn't normally use. The only negative is sometimes you can over expose on minimum iso and fairly bright light.

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Oct 26, 2017 18:51:43   #
John Gerlach Loc: Island Park, Idaho
 
I use evaluative, take a quick shot to check for blinkies, and adjust the EV accordingly.
If too many blinkies, then I use a more negative EV, and if no blinkies, I add a little more EV and try again. I shoot RAW only, so normally use the exposure combo that produces the first blinkies and sometimes a little more if the subject is really dark like a buffalo.

Alley7 wrote:
John,
Tried this and it works great on my 5D Mark 1V. My question is in Africa using your above system, what metering did you keep your camera on for wildlife? Some experts vary from Evaluative, Partial to even spot in some cases. I haven't had a whole lot of luck with Evaul with often the background being washed out. Shooting Canon EF 100-400 f/4 ll.
Thanks,
John A,
Seattle WA

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Oct 26, 2017 18:54:42   #
John Gerlach Loc: Island Park, Idaho
 
I have never run into that. Since I use this technique primarily for wildlife where autoexposure makes sense, in many situations it does not, but in bright sun the exposure should be close to 1/ISO at f/16 so assuming ISO 100, that would be 1/100 second at f/16 or so (old sunny 16 rule),
but normally I would use far more shutter speed so not likely to overexpose anyway.
Alley7 wrote:
John,
Tried this and it works great on my 5D Mark 1V. My question is in Africa using your above system, what metering did you keep your camera on for wildlife? Some experts vary from Evaluative, Partial to even spot in some cases. I haven't had a whole lot of luck with Evaul with often the background being washed out. Shooting Canon EF 100-400 f/4 ll.
Thanks,
John A,
Seattle WA

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Mar 13, 2018 11:46:38   #
DJCard Loc: Northern Kentucky
 
I’ve found Aperture mode, with Easy ISO and Minimum Shutter Speed set, on my Nikon D750 and D850 is fast and “easy” for what I do. With BBF (back button focus), I shoot, quickly check highlights and/or histogram, adjust EC with command dial (ie, Easy ISO) and shoot again, all literally within a second or two. I enjoy the precise control of full manual, but Easy ISO can’t be beat!

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