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Using Older Flash
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Sep 14, 2017 13:22:39   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
BebuLamar wrote:
I use a lot of old flashes and they work out well. Measure the sync voltage with a meter to make sure it is not too high. If the voltage is low enough use them as is. If not don't use them. Buying the safesync isn't worth it.


The safe sync is definitely worth it for studio flash. We used them in the school portrait industry with old our old Norman, Photogenic, and Novatron power packs that powered multiple flash heads. But yes, if the flash you want to use is 20-30 years old and cost $89 back then, a $50 safe sync is silly. Get a new flash!

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Sep 14, 2017 13:52:10   #
BebuLamar
 
burkphoto wrote:
The safe sync is definitely worth it for studio flash. We used them in the school portrait industry with old our old Norman, Photogenic, and Novatron power packs that powered multiple flash heads. But yes, if the flash you want to use is 20-30 years old and cost $89 back then, a $50 safe sync is silly. Get a new flash!


If I have a set of studio flashes and since they are not portable I would build my own sync cable that is not only safe but can trigger multiple strobes without problem.

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Sep 14, 2017 14:03:07   #
GoofyNewfie Loc: Kansas City
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
OLD STROBES- Advice from an OLD strobe guy (me)

.. Y'all scientists and engineers out there,please forgive the oversimplifications but with cameras and tickers- better safe that sorry, I just hate the smell of burning flesh or dead cameras.

I appreciate your posts and the oversimplifications.
Makes it easier for me to understand.
Thanks!

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Sep 14, 2017 14:03:37   #
sirlensalot Loc: Arizona
 
Would avoid the trouble and buy a modern flash. Yongnuo makes one that has all the functions you will need for less than $100. Take a peek at the YN-568 EXII

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Sep 14, 2017 14:06:09   #
srt101fan
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
OLD STROBES- Advice from an OLD strobe guy (me)

I am a full time professional photographer. At one time in my career I was involved in an electronic flash modification, custom construction and repair business So here's inside stuff on old flash gear.

Some of the older units are great- simple, but very usable. Yes there are trigger voltage issues with old flash gear and digital cameras, however the adapters, like the ones offered by Wein are safe and effective. Triggering you older units by radio or photo-electric slave cells is also safe provided the old unprotected unit is in no way directly connected to the digital cameras, synchronization system.

As I alluded to, some of the older units are fine, however, before investing in adapters or power source conversions it is advisable to make certain that the old unit is in good working condition. Electronic flash equipment that has been in storage and left dormant for long period of time, perhaps years, can suffer form DEFORMED CAPACITORS. The electrolytic capacitors within you unit "like" regular usage, that is, i being charged and discharged all the time. Simply stated, long periods of non use can damage them beyond repair- they may need to be replaced and that is expensive IF the replacement parts are still available. In some cases, however, the can easily be reformed. If possible, turn the unit on- hopefully the ready-light will come on BUT DO NOT FLASH- just allow the unit to charge up and "idle" for at least an hour and then begin to flash it by means of the open flash button or by "shorting out" the sync. cord or socket with a small insulated metal object. Because of the potentially high trigger voltage or other possible malfunction issues, do not connect it directly to the camera until it is operating normally and the trigger voltage has been established and the proper adapters is in place.

If during this operation, the ready light fails to come on steadily , if there is a crackling sound (like bacon frying) or there is smoke or the odor of burning plastic (phenolc circuit board stuff) or burning rubber or plastic insulation, well- sadly, the old thing deserves a decent dignified burial. If the unit works but the non-user replaceable flash tube is blackened near the electrodes, again, further investment in time and money is not advisable.

The good news is- if the unit is functioning, some of those older units are really fabulous in terms of light quality. The old Graflex Stroboflash units have a gorgeous soft and even lamp head- great for location portrait work, weddings and assignment like those. They are worth the battery-power conversion but remember, theses are strictly manual types of equipment- no TTL or any kind of dedicated operation so you gotta know your flash exposures how to use your flash meter, guide numbers and distance estimation instincts instinctively and effectively. The power supplies (shoulder carried power packs) are oftentimes bulky and heavy. Also, when having the conversions done, make certain that the trigger voltage is adjusted or adapted for digital camera applications.

@the OP- your Vivatar 273 weighs in at 290 Volts (trigger voltage). That can quietly vaporize you camera's electronics so don't use it without the aforementioned adapters or remote triggering methods. Electrocuted cameras don't explode or smoke- they just die silently and won't work anymore.

The Honeywell Strobinars (model 8225) have a safe and tiny 1.25 trigger voltage, however, it is always wise to check out the actual voltage regardless of published specifications. A multi-meter (in DC higher voltage modes) placed across the sync contacts will tell the story.

Also remember that the trigger voltage has noting to do with the battery voltage on portable units or speed-lights or the AC (input) operating voltage on studio type units and mono-lights. Trigger voltage originates in the trigger circuit that is usually within the unit's lamp head close to the flash tube. A trigger coil and capacitor provide the pulse of high energy that ionizes the gas in the flash tube and produced the light. Some of this power goes through the camera during synchronization.

OK- I know I sound like an old-lady kinda guy but I always write this when talking about flash conversions and adaptations. If you are not familiar with servicing higher voltages devices- don't go poking around in your strobe with a screwdriver. Even some of the little units harbor dangerous and potentially lethal voltages and currents. A nasty shock can cause burns, nerve damage and even death. Cardiac defibrillators work on the same principle as flash units so you don't want your ticker defibrillated if it don't need it! Y'all scientists and engineers out there,please forgive the oversimplifications but with cameras and tickers- better safe that sorry, I just hate the smell of burning flesh or dead cameras.
OLD STROBES- Advice from an OLD strobe guy (me) i... (show quote)


Wow! As the owner of a taking-up-storage-space Vivitar 283 I appreciate the info. Thanks!

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Sep 14, 2017 15:14:40   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
BebuLamar wrote:
If I have a set of studio flashes and since they are not portable I would build my own sync cable that is not only safe but can trigger multiple strobes without problem.


In our retail business, we were lugging 440 sets of four heads and a power pack into schools all over the country on a daily basis. When we gave up long roll film cameras (2005 to 2006) and switched to midrange Canons, we couldn't buy all new lights. Those lighting setups cost about $4000 each with stands, cables, and various light modifiers. SOME of the packs we used had very high trigger voltages, so rather than risk an "unknowing" photographer frying our new Canons, we put the Safe Sync HSHSB on every camera. We still had two folks who didn't listen in training --- too busy texting on their CrackBerries. They plugged their old Novatron packs into the Canon sync terminal. Bzzzt <POP> smoke... brick.

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Sep 14, 2017 16:03:10   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
jcsnell wrote:
Need some advice from UHH members. I have a Vivitar 273 Flash from my film days, and I have been told that you cannot use them on digital cameras because of the higher voltage. I have heard about some kind of adapter that reduces the voltage so you can use it on a digital camera. Does anyone have any information or thoughts on this? Should I just buy a new flash? I hate to just "throw away" all of my old film stuff, but I want to be sure I can use it without damage Thanks...John


There was huge variation in trigger voltages of older flashes... No one worried about it because it was no problem with primarily mechanical cameras.

But as cameras became more and more electronic, the electronics were increasingly miniaturized, and computers started to sneak inside cameras.... they became more and more susceptible to high trigger voltages. Not just digital, but even some of the last couple generations of film cameras couldn't handle more than 6 or 12 volts (including some of the last Canon film cameras, such as the EOS-3's and Elan 7E that I used). Some old flashes triggered as high as 400 volts!

Today most modern DSLR are designed to handle a minimum of 250V. That was set as a standard some five or ten years ago and I think most manufacturers have met it (I know for certain that both Nikon and Canon have). But, even so I'd be careful about using an old flash on a modern camera.

There are a variety of ways to still use the flash, but isolate it from the camera. One is to use a Wein Safe-Sync that goes in the hot shoe between the camera and the flash. You also could set up the flash off-camera with an optical slave trigger and use a camera's on-board (wimpy) flash to trigger it. Or you could use a radio triggering device... a receiver under the flash and a controller/transmitter on the camera. (Though the radio device needs to be able to tolerate the voltage, too.)

You can measure the triggering voltage of a flash pretty easily with a voltage/ohm meter. Or there's a chart online of many common flashes' trigger voltages, as measured and reported by various users (just Google it... but note that some models with multiple reports show a broad range of measured voltages, which makes it difficult to fully trust them... probably better to measure your own, to be sure).

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Sep 14, 2017 16:08:28   #
BebuLamar
 
burkphoto wrote:
In our retail business, we were lugging 440 sets of four heads and a power pack into schools all over the country on a daily basis. When we gave up long roll film cameras (2005 to 2006) and switched to midrange Canons, we couldn't buy all new lights. Those lighting setups cost about $4000 each with stands, cables, and various light modifiers. SOME of the packs we used had very high trigger voltages, so rather than risk an "unknowing" photographer frying our new Canons, we put the Safe Sync HSHSB on every camera. We still had two folks who didn't listen in training --- too busy texting on their CrackBerries. They plugged their old Novatron packs into the Canon sync terminal. Bzzzt <POP> smoke... brick.
In our retail business, we were lugging 440 sets o... (show quote)


When I said they are not portable means once you set it up you don't move it for the whole day.

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Sep 14, 2017 16:31:50   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
BebuLamar wrote:
When I said they are not portable means once you set it up you don't move it for the whole day.


Ahhh. Yeah, we didn't move ours either, until the job was complete.

One sales territory might have a dozen rigs of various vintages. It was common to mix and match items when problems occurred with one rig. So we tried to protect everything as best we could.

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Sep 14, 2017 21:11:19   #
bwilliams
 
Graphic Stroboflash IV reminds me of the wedding days. I would have a hard time lugging them around all day and night now.

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Sep 14, 2017 22:17:18   #
jcsnell Loc: SW Ohio
 
Thanks to everyone for advice and reply to my post on using older flash. After considering all that was said, I think the safest and most practical thing is to just buy a new flash. There are several units that cost not much more than the "safe sync adapter" I have been looking at a Yongnuo 685 or 968 and the are around $100-120. Thanks again everyone...John

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Sep 14, 2017 22:29:12   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
Resident worry-wart here again! Just want to make sure that someone doesn't damage ther camera by misinterpreting certain information.

If you use a radio or photoelectric triggering system where the potentially offending unit is NOT directly wired to the camera and is being synchronized by a radio signal device or by acting as a slave to a safe on camera flash via a photo-cell, you are perfectly safe. If, however,you are using an older on-camera flash connected to a radio transmitter or transceiver, such as those made by Quantum or Pocket Wizard, where the on camera flash is directly connected to the on-camera transmitter, I am not sue if the radio will isolate the excessive trigger voltage from the camera. Of course, the receiver and the off-camera slave unit will have no affect on the camera regardless of the trigger voltage.I use this configuration all the time with older Lumadyne units- one is on the camera and the others are trigger by Pocket Wizard radios. As a precaution, I have the Wein adapter in place.

Worry #2- I think somebody wrote that they were gonna construct some kind of junction box whereby several flash unit will be directly hard wired to the camera. That can be dangerous even to a non-electronic film camera. If the sync contacts on the flash units are wired in series, the voltages will add up to the sum of all the voltages. If the are wired in parallel the current or amperage will increase- that can be worse. Some yeas ago there was a llittle 3 way=adapter that facilitated such a hook up- many shutter's sync contacts were damages as a result of using that thing- I think it was meant for flash bulbs but was continued to be sold for strobes- BAD!

Aside form sophisticates digital cameras and their complex circuitry, the basic synchronization mechanism in your camera's shutter acts like an ordinary light switch that fires the flash unit when the shutter is fully open and ready to sync with the flash. Of course it is much more delicate than an ordinary light switch and if there is excessive voltage or amperage (current), arcing or sparking can occur. This causes carbonizing or blacking of the contacts, eventually causing burning out- breakage or a kinda "welding" together of the contacts. Burning out will simply cause non-synchronization and fusing together will cause the unit to continuously flash as soon as it connected to the camera. As theses conditions are in the process of occurring intermittent failure will be ongoing until finally failure happens.

I offer this information just in case! You see, as a you photographer and electronic flash experimenter, I liked to TINKER! Suffice it to say, I blew up lot of stuff- nearly including myself. I once ended on the other side of my workbench and to this day, don't know how I got there.

If you have some oldie but goodie studio strobes or old mono lights in a studio-like set up- just use radios or photo-cells and don't worry about the trigger voltage- it won't hurt your radios or photo cells. Don't bother with malfunctioning or badly damaged old units. Again a little oversimplification- a damaged unit can cause high voltage to kinda back up into places where it should not be like in the outer body of the camera, the housing around the lamp heads or power packs or, shockingly, across the photographer's body!

Better safe than sorry.

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Sep 14, 2017 23:02:18   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
jcsnell wrote:
Thanks to everyone for advice and reply to my post on using older flash. After considering all that was said, I think the safest and most practical thing is to just buy a new flash. There are several units that cost not much more than the "safe sync adapter" I have been looking at a Yongnuo 685 or 968 and the are around $100-120. Thanks again everyone...John



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Sep 14, 2017 23:42:49   #
BHC Loc: Strawberry Valley, JF, USA
 
From Botzilla, some examples:

253 No 200V, from BigWaveDave

255 No 284V, checked by Greg Sutton

272 No 240V, checked by "RoyDM"

273 No 290V, also from Nigel Kirlew

283 NO (old versions)
Your call (new versions) Older units have been reported as high as 600V!
Recent (post-'87) revised 283's ("Made in China") are safer with modern cameras, running around 9-10V. Bob Atkins reports some as low as 5V. Recently units marked "Made in Korea" have also appeared... measured at 8v by Andrew Cassino and Tony Bonanno.
Kevin Omura used a Quantum battery and got a hefty 261.4V out of his (sn3012330), while
Göran Samuelsson had two units with different voltages: 230V and 190V. Other reports have had similar variety, up to 270V.

285 Your Call 7.45-7.8V, according to "Bob from MediaPlus.com," Mike Dubbs, and "Steven at bellatlantic.net."
Peter Savage checked his 285 and 285HV units, and read only 6V.
Mike Flaherty measured around 8.5V on his 15-year-old 285, and feels safe using it on his EOS D30.
Older units may rate higher.
One correspondent had three units ranging from 8.3V to 33V...
Alan Latafat Correa checked with Vivitar and they clarified:
The 285HV has a voltage of 12V. The 285 has a voltage of 350V. Hope this helps you.
(Thanks Alan!)

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Sep 15, 2017 00:53:21   #
kb6kgx Loc: Simi Valley, CA
 
wmurnahan wrote:
First do a search for a site that will tell you the voltage of your strobe, some old ones are OK, my old Sunpak potato masher was not, I bought an adapter that slides on the hot shoe. It was a couple of years ago so I don't have the web sites on hand, but all I did was google it.


You don’t say which model Sunpak you have/had, but I have a Sunpak 555 “potato masher” and it seems to work fine on my D7100. When I originally inquired here on UHH as to whether or not I should use it and if it might harm my camera, the responses were fairly evenly split between “no, you’ll fry your camera” and “sure, I use it, no problem”. I did check online as to the trigger voltage and it was right around 6 volts, well within the range of “ok, it should be fine”. So far, it seems to be working. Manual mode only, of course. But, then, that’s what I had with my FE2, also. Would I like a SB-800 Speedlight? Sure, but if I don’t have to spend $350, why should I?

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