Great shot and blow-up. It makes me more confident that my D5100 is totally capable for all the image quality I need.
jkatpc wrote:
...but I am looking forward to venturing into full frame in the next year or so.
If you do, you'll need a bigger office wall!
ELNikkor wrote:
Great shot and blow-up. It makes me more confident that my D5100 is totally capable for all the image quality I need.
Thanks. Honestly, I was a little surprised of two things: first, I took this photo from another watercraft, which was rocking itself (yay for image stabilization!); second, how non-pixelated the enlargement was.
kymarto wrote:
Resolution does NOT depend on the size of the sensor, but on the number of pixels and the resolution of the lens. The advantage of FF lies in better high ISO response (generally speaking) and shallower depth of field for the same angle of view.
Yes, but I would think also that the more light each pixel can absorb, the less inherent noise that would manifest itself more visibly in an enlargement. Maybe my thinking is off, though.
kymarto
Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy
jkatpc wrote:
Yes, but I would think also that the more light each pixel can absorb, the less inherent noise that would manifest itself more visibly in an enlargement. Maybe my thinking is off, though.
At a certain point yes, but before that point it really doesn't matter--shooting at or near base ISO.
It is true that the best crop sensors do not have the dynamic range of the best FF sensors, but many crop sensors have better dynamic range than some FF sensors. And noise is not resolution.
The only issue I see is the limited audience. That should be out where the rest of the world can see it. Well done!
--
Bill_de wrote:
The only issue I see is the limited audience. That should be out where the rest of the world can see it. Well done!
--
Thanks! Maybe we will parade visitors through the break room :)
rehess
Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
kymarto wrote:
And noise is not resolution.
But noise
is an enemy of sharpness. Noise Reduction methods tend to reduce sharpness also. Sharpening tends to emphasize noise, so there is a tendency to do less sharpening of a noisy image.
Looks as if your ship has come in.
Other serious photographers might notice a difference with full frame. Regular folks - far less likely. I fact you could have used an iPhone and and the majority of viewers wouldn't see any deficiency. Yes, this sounds a tad cynical but it's mostly true. On the other hand good composition and an appealing visual concept swamps resolution.
One of the things I remember specifically from my film days when I was playing with various Minox cameras (when I wasn't using a Rolleiflex or Nikon) is that resolution and depth of focus are both dependent on degree of enlargement AND viewing distance. Specifically, that an image that looks good as a 4x5 (remember them?) viewed at 8 inches SHOULD look just as good blown up to a mural IF you view it from a proportional distance.
The mural size ship photo looks great in the image offered. Of course, it may not be tack sharp or highly detailed when you get real close, but what was its purpose? If you're taking reconnaissance photos, you always want the maximum resolution you can get so the analysts can make the best judgements. But for most of us, we really ought to be more prepared to accept what's good enough for our purposes and get on with looking for great pictures. (I'm talking mostly to myself here.)
Another thing that has helped me try to NOT focus so hard on technical details, especially of lens resolution, came from a fellow who did extensive and highly technical evaluations of Leica rangefinder lenses, back when I used those cameras, too, and read the appropriate forums. He found that the Leica lenses frequently DID have higher resolution than most any of the equivalent Nikon/Canon lenses, BUT - you could only see the differences when you shot both on a heavy tripod with a cable or other remote release. Shoot with a Leica M handheld and you wouldn't get any better resolution in the print than you would using one of the usual SLRs of the day. (I used the Leicas for their smaller size especially with wide angle lenses, their unobtrusiveness compared to, say, a Nikon F, and sometimes for their quiet shutters, which was critical when shooting theatrical productions at my kids' schools.)
Now, I'm not knocking the urge for full frame digital. I have taken very few images with my Nikon D7000 since I got the (larger) D600 full frame, which I carry around with my older but larger FX lenses. I do admit to myself (at least sometimes) that I almost certainly could make just as effective 8x8 black and white images (I did about a thousand of those last Christmas for various family members) using the DX camera. It's just that I already had a bag full of f/2.8 zooms from my film cameras, and really wanted to get the full wide angle effect of the 17-35. If I hadn't had those lenses I would have been crazy (purely from an output standpoint, given my needs) not to have stuck with the DX cameras.
kymarto
Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy
rehess wrote:
But noise is an enemy of sharpness. Noise Reduction methods tend to reduce sharpness also. Sharpening tends to emphasize noise, so there is a tendency to do less sharpening of a noisy image.
First, it is important to realize that sharpening does not increase resolution; it only emphasizes the boundaries between areas of different contrast. It cannot increase detail.
Of course noise will reduce resolution as signal gets lost in increasing noise; the question is when the noise appears. My point was that at base ISO or thereabouts, you won't notice any difference between the resolution of an image shot with FF and crop sensors with the same number of pixels, if you use lenses of the same angle of view and equivalent sharpness (say a 75mm lens on FF and a 50mm on crop to give equivalent angle of view). And of course if your FF sensor is noisier than your crop sensor then the crop sensor might even look better at higher ISOs.
What is important to realize is that this is not like a bigger negative and a smaller negative, in which the smaller negative has to be enlarged more than the larger negative for the same size print. A pixel is a pixel is a pixel, whether the photosite from which it is created is the smaller one of a crop sensor or the larger one of a FF sensor. Yes, the larger photosite might have more dynamic range and less noise, but it is still a pixel, so size as such doesn't really matter as it does in analog.
wrangler5 wrote:
One of the things I remember specifically from my film days when I was playing with various Minox cameras (when I wasn't using a Rolleiflex or Nikon) is that resolution and depth of focus are both dependent on degree of enlargement AND viewing distance. Specifically, that an image that looks good as a 4x5 (remember them?) viewed at 8 inches SHOULD look just as good blown up to a mural IF you view it from a proportional distance.
The mural size ship photo looks great in the image offered. Of course, it may not be tack sharp or highly detailed when you get real close, but what was its purpose? If you're taking reconnaissance photos, you always want the maximum resolution you can get so the analysts can make the best judgements. But for most of us, we really ought to be more prepared to accept what's good enough for our purposes and get on with looking for great pictures. (I'm talking mostly to myself here.)
Another thing that has helped me try to NOT focus so hard on technical details, especially of lens resolution, came from a fellow who did extensive and highly technical evaluations of Leica rangefinder lenses, back when I used those cameras, too, and read the appropriate forums. He found that the Leica lenses frequently DID have higher resolution than most any of the equivalent Nikon/Canon lenses, BUT - you could only see the differences when you shot both on a heavy tripod with a cable or other remote release. Shoot with a Leica M handheld and you wouldn't get any better resolution in the print than you would using one of the usual SLRs of the day. (I used the Leicas for their smaller size especially with wide angle lenses, their unobtrusiveness compared to, say, a Nikon F, and sometimes for their quiet shutters, which was critical when shooting theatrical productions at my kids' schools.)
Now, I'm not knocking the urge for full frame digital. I have taken very few images with my Nikon D7000 since I got the (larger) D600 full frame, which I carry around with my older but larger FX lenses. I do admit to myself (at least sometimes) that I almost certainly could make just as effective 8x8 black and white images (I did about a thousand of those last Christmas for various family members) using the DX camera. It's just that I already had a bag full of f/2.8 zooms from my film cameras, and really wanted to get the full wide angle effect of the 17-35. If I hadn't had those lenses I would have been crazy (purely from an output standpoint, given my needs) not to have stuck with the DX cameras.
One of the things I remember specifically from my ... (
show quote)
You hit on viewing distance. This is a "beef" with me on those who get TVs that are outsized for the room they're in. I know a guy in my building who has an 80" TV......In a 17’ x 17' room! I've seen it (sorta) the damned thing is unwatchable! from the couch, you have to move your head up and down,side to side to see the whole picture! It may win juvenile pi**ing contests, but can't be enjoyable for actual use! 😛
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