spiritsong Loc: Tampa

Wedding at 6:00 pm. Then photos.sun will be going down behind wedding party,as they want ocean in background.
My question is, what camera settings would be good so as not to have dark images of wedding party.i am a friend of the family who want me to do pics.i do not have luck with light behind people,and have them come out light enough.i normaly stay away from this type of shoot.i am only one,and do not have fancy lighting etc.i have Nikon d 5200.
18-140 m lens I will use. I have external flash also.i do not shoot raw.please advise if u can.i need aperature setting maybe f22.? So everyone will be in focus .iso ?not sure how high to go

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

Use your external flash and aperture f/11 to f/13 will provide a deep enough depth of field. You need to practice working with the exposure compensation to 'fill' the scene with enough light / flash against the back lighting of the sun. ISO-400 will work fine. Practice with the flash in similar lighting is where you should focus between now and then.

jdubu Loc: San Jose, CA

Expose for the background, use your flash, off camera to fill the subjects faces.

If you practice the setup, you will find the correct distance and power you need to manually set your flash, within your camera's flash sync speed, for multiple shots and groupings (a stand will be VERY handy). Once set correctly, you can move around while leaving the flash as it is, your flash lighting will not change. (the background as the sun sets will change). Remember if you have more than 3 or 4 people posed, the flash (if set off at 45 degrees), may need to be closer to camera angle to avoid flash shadows from one person to another. Also, a large diffuser will give you better fill light and minimize harsh shadow transitions.

If you want to capture the warmth of the sunset, set your WB to daylight as you will not be able to adjust WB after the fact easily, if at all, shooting jpeg. Remember the flash will be emitting at 5000+K, so the people will not be warmed, but will look daylight natural. If you want to add some warm tones to the skin, add a 1/4 or 1/2 CTO over the flash. A sunset in the background is ideal for rim lighting your subjects and separating them from the background, you're lucky you can use the ambient to your advantage.

f22 is asking for trouble, you will not get a proper shutter speed in the early evening. If the groups are fairly well placed and not 5 or 6 rows deep, f11 will be fine. When I shoot interior rooms, I am at f8 and the room is well focused. You could also try going to a couple stops more open as the light fades. That will not affect flash exposure as increasing ISO might. If it's just a single row of people, you might get away with f4... at least try it to see when you practice. You may find you can get very acceptable depth of field for this at lower f-stops.

big-guy Loc: Peterborough Ontario Canada

While I'm in favor of learning on your feet, this is an extremely tight situation with little room for error and when it comes to a wedding I would strongly recommend leaving it to a pro. Should you decide to go ahead, choose manual exposure mode, ISO 100, f8, meter for the entire scene and under expose by 1.5 stop using SS, (adjust aperture so SS is = or less than flash synch) use your flash set to TTL. This is a crude method but should get you close.

Also, and this is a big one, shoot RAW especially in this situation. Even if you can't or won't post process, someone else can and you will be eternally grateful for the ability to adjust the results. You just can't do that with a jpg in this scenario.

spiritsong Loc: Tampa

Thank you for your help . I will start practicing.i want to do well.

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

Amen, yes, for the love of Pete, you need to use flash to fill in the people. If not, you will end up with some pretty nice silhouettes, but nothing that shows the faces.

If you don't have an external flash (nothing fancy) rent or borrow one. It's much better if it is off the camera, but you should still be able to manage to get people shots. I've done it with a point and shoot with the onboard flash, so it is POSSIBLE, but probably not going to give you the results you want for wedding photos.

As others mentioned, don't do F22. F8-F11 are going to be fine. F22, your flash won't help you at all. Shutter speed affects the ambient light (the sunset) and Aperture will affect the flash exposure. Something they don't always teach people. when you buy a camera. The pop up flash might light a few people if you were within a few feet, but you will need something with more "oomph" Even a Yongnuo flash (affordable) will be 1000x better than the little on camera flash.

As mentioned above, set the camera for raw + jpeg, that way if you run into problems, a lot of detail can be saved from a raw image. jpeg, your kind of stuck with what your given.

Share some photos if you get a chance. I'm sure we'd love to see and share.
bk

BermBuster Loc: Hi Desert S.Cal

Hi spiritsong,
All great advise by the others, I'€™ll throw my two cents in for you to chew on....

As you can see, there is really no simple... '€˜quick and dirty'€™ setting that you can rely on. This is a difficult lighting situation, (Mixing Flash with Ambient). But the results are worth the effort.
I'€™ll throw an example up, showing the difference between exposing just for the subjects, beside one exposed for sunset and subjects using a single flash.
----------------------------------------------
Here's how I approach it; You are making two exposures;So think of it that way; Set up your BG (background exposure first) then set up your flash exposure.
----------------------------------------------
Things to remember.....
- Your ISO will affect both exposures, so try to set it first
- Your Shutter will affect Ambient Light (sunset/background light) & you€™r highest speed is limited to your cameras sync speed.(yours is 1/200th sec)
- Your Aperture will affect flash(exposure or light) & Depth of field (whats in focus)
- Shooting RAW will help save you - esp with exposure and color temperture
----------------------------------------------

1) Ok, expose for the sunset first, (I usually go a day or two before, and practice at the time of the wedding, 5-6pm).
Camera on manual, ISO 100- 200, Ss(shutter)@1/200th,
-Get your exposure set properly with your Aperture, I then drop exposure
1 to 1 2/3 stops(underexpose). This helps to richen the BG colors and make your subjects stand out.
..Don'€™t use your shutter speed to do this, if you raise it anymore, the flash won't fire. Use your Aperture.
.....Once your happy with how that looks....
2) Now set your Flash exposure; you'€™ll need a test subject.
(This is where a light meter comes in handy). Without a light meter, this will be trial and error...
To set your Flash exposure, your adjustments will be... the -Power on the flash, the -Distance the flash is from your subjects, and the Aperture on your camera.
Once you find the exposure you like, just make sure the flash stays at the same distance... wherever you go, and it will never change!

----Tips:
I try to keep my Flash 6'€™ or closer to the subjects. I usually shoot thru an umbrella outdoors, & my flash is usually on a stick held by someone else or on a stand.
I try to keep my flash power low, like 1/4 or less...so it will recycle faster and the batteries last longer.
- fine tune exposure with aperture on camera

Once you figure out the exposure you like,write it down€™.
Example: Aperture @f’/8 - Flash at 1/4power, 4' from subject.
This will give you a starting point on the wedding day.
.....think my math is off on my example, more like 2 ⅓ stops difference......

jdubu Loc: San Jose, CA

Just came across this blog post... haven't read it in detail, but may answer some questions you have. Plus maybe point out some things to consider.

https://www.colesclassroom.com/our-6-best-tips-for-how-to-take-group-photos-with-confidence/

and

https://www.colesclassroom.com/5-wedding-photography-tricks-mastering-night-portraits/

Look through the tutorials and you may find some interesting articles from which you can benefit.

davefales Loc: Virginia

Helpful share. Thank you.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

As others have alluded to, covering a wedding without know-how and experience is not a great idea- especially in difficult lighting conditions. It is important, for your own legal protection and personal reputation to advise the couple of your inexperience and the risk that you may not be able to deliver exactly what they expect- hopefully you will succeed but most seasoned wedding shooters are firm believers in MURPHY'S LAW! As long as everyone understands the ramifications and the possibility of disappointment, it is alright to proceed on that understanding. I would advise you to put this agreement in writing. I don't make a habit of discouraging folks around here- as others who frequent this section will attest to, however, some words to the wise are in order. Of course, my not knowing the folks you are helping out as to your relationship with them or their real expectations, I am simply offering you this blanket advice that I give to all my amateur and non-wedding pro friends that find themselves in your position. In my long tenure on this job, I have seen some pretty bizarre lawsuits and family altercations go down so again, just some words to the wise!

Now...back to technical matters. So... this is a "SUNSET WEDDING"...I get that but depending on your geographic location, the weather conditions and other factors, the actual sunset lasts only for a relatively short time and has many stages of dramatic lighting. I assume that you will be covering the entire event so not all of the images you will be making will be under sunset lighting conditions. Some may be under late afternoon conditions and others may be during dusk or even nighttime darkness situations. You should have your available light and flash setting down pat for all of theses scenarios. You may even need to work indoors if any part of you coverage goes inside the home or other enclosed locations. You must be prepare for inclement weather or other unforeseen conditions.

The general rule of thumb for fill in flash usage is rather simple as long as you stay within you camera's flash synchronization shutter speed limitations. One method is to go with your flash setting (f/stop) and the use the appropriate shutter speed to accommodate proper exposure at that aperture. As others have recommended, you can also expose for the sunset and the add enough flash lighting to open up the shadows, thereby properly illuminating the subject and recording detail in the faces and clothing- not silhouetting them. If you would like a dramatic profile type semi-silhouette effect, you can reduce the flash power accordingly to taste. Again this (silhouette effect)) only works well in profile poses where the subjects are facing each other. In full face shots- you want adequate detail in both the sunset.water and the couple or other group shots.

Practice makes perfect so it is important to dry run you exposure techniques in similar lighting situations well before the day of the event. During the actual shoot, it is advisable to take lots of shots during the relatively short window of opportunity that a setting sun offers. Another safeguard is to bracket the exposures, that is vary the aperture or the shutter speed around your basic exposure for each shot. Some cameras have an automatic bracketing feature that will automatically provide this variation for each shot. This is especially important if the ceremony takes place under difficult lighting conditions.

If the reception goes into the late evening, it is important to use your flash with some savvy. If you set your flash to expose at medium to wider apertures (wider f/stops) you can set your shutter to record some of the ambient light form lanterns or other outdoor lighting sources- you must remain at practical hand-held shutter settings. If the f/stop is too small or the shutter speed too fast, only the flash illumination will record and the subjects will appear as if the are in total darkness (the dread "black hole effect") due to the inverse square law, that is, the fall off of light from your flash unit at distances beyond the subject. Again, this is something you can experiment with in advance, in your backyard on the street at night. Focus on a subject about 10 feet away- expose for your flash at that distance and see what shutter speed will record light from houses or streetlamps. This will give you a feel for the technique. This adds a realistic ambiance to each shot and will record the effects of candle light, lanterns, colored or white outdoor flood lights, stringed lights and others sources that show the atmosphere of a festive outdoor evening party.

Just a few cheap and easy but more advanced techniques: When you are using flash fill, to a degree, you are "shooting blind" in that you can't exactly know, especially without experience, exactly what you flash-fill result will be until you "chimp" or examine the results after the fact. In the hurried shooting schedule of a wedding coverage this can be problematic. One of my favorite techniques for back-lighting FORMAL SHOTS AND PORTRAITS and in sunset situations is using a REFLECTOR rather that flash. There are many commercially available "SILVER" type reflectors or one can be made of a Foam-Cor(tm.) board covered with crushed and re-expanded aluminum foil. I also recommend that bubble-wrap kinda silvery plastic stuff or that metallic covered foam insulation board. You simple expose for the sun lighted background and re-direct, via the reflector, some of that warm beautiful light back onto the subjects. What you see is what you get and you camera's metering system should read properly if it center weighted. A 24"-36" square reflector will do the job for full length and closer shots. The reflector is held above the subject's height and between 15 and 90 degrees for the camera/subject axis. depending on the portrait-like effect you want to create. This may sound rather complex and requires the help of an assistant, however, once you see this in practice, it is totally simple. You don't need to worry about flash synchronization and you can use any aperture you like to create "bokeh" or nice out of focus backgrounds when desired or more depth of field you need it.

I hope some of theses suggestions help and don't seem too crazy. Theses are condensed methodologies that are routinely used by experienced wedding pros. All of the other posts in this thread are fine advice as well. The most important preparation you can make is once you decide on which methods you wish to adopt, plan on a strategy and test it out well in advance so when you get to the actual shoot, you needn't worry about all theses technicalities and concentrate on the job at hand, that is, catching all the highlights of the occasion and getting good spontaneous expressions.

Best of luck on the shoot and with kindest regards, Ed

spiritsong Loc: Tampa

Thank you so much everyone for your help. I have watched this web site for a few years,always learn new things,but was chicken to actually sign up to talk to all of you. I am very glad I did.so again,thank you all for all the info

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

Welcome aboard.