John Howard Loc: SW Florida and Blue Ridge Mountains of NC.

Anybody heard about the new camera (with great specs) having a random banding issue? Can you share any info?

chaman

The banding issue is a real one. Only time will tell how serious it will become or how common. Also if it can be resolved easily. This will really test Sony customer support.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv1JCHfXDdY

CHOLLY Loc: THE FLORIDA PANHANDLE!

Take a good SERIOUS look at this video. Think about what you ACTUALLY see and NOT what is inferred by Fro-knows:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv1JCHfXDdY

0:30 Mark : "After I counted all the images, it's somewhere around TWO PERCENT of the nineteen hundred and five images that were taken. So roughly 50 of them showed banding issues."

5:30 Mark: "Here's around the area where the banding issue was happening. I just moved to the side this time. You can see that you are getting banding in the LCD Scree-Look at that! That's banding coming in from there."

Fro-knows goes on to say: "Now, that doesn't bother me as much 'cause it; we used to see that flicker in TV's... but it shouldn't be there because I'll show you in a couple of minutes different shots with Nikon and Canon that don't have that."

Fro-knows then showed us images he'd taken with those cameras.... FROM DIFFERENT DAYS, WITH DIFFERENT LIGHTING CONDITIONS, SHOT FROM DIFFERENT LOCATIONS.

In EVERY one of the images Fro-knows used to illustrate "the banding problem", the subject was actually ILLUMINATED BY THE FLICKERING LED BOARDS.

EVERY SINGLE ONE.

In FACT, close inspection of HIS images from HIS website showed that the "banding" was indeed only visible.......... IN REFLECTED LIGHT OFF SUBJECTS DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF AND ILLUMINATED BY THOSE BOARDS.

It was NOT visible in the crowd shots, the background, or the sky portions of his shots.

NOR was it visible in images where the subject WAS NOT directly illuminated by the LED boards. Not even REMOTELY present. It wasn't even visible across the entire screen or even in major portions of the image when you COULD see it; ONLY where light from the LED's was reflecting off the subject being photographed.

He even mentions this fact, but incorrectly concludes that the "banding" it isn't because of that LED lighting, when CLEARLY the only times it is visible is in light from the LED displays being reflected off a nearby subject.




So, what is the solution to eliminating this flicker effect only seen in the roughly 2% of the 1,905 images Fro-knows took? Well, it's VERY simple; ADJUST THE SHUTTER SPEED. Up or down. That's all that needs to be done. PERIOD.

The A9 has an industry best EVF and WYSIWYG, so if you take a picture and see it, just adjust the shutter speed until it goes away. In fact, you can do that BEFORE you start shooting to avoid any potential problems DURING the shoot. Same as checking light levels and setting pre-focused points before the game/match/event.

The dynamic range and ISO range of the A9 is sufficient that the photographic exposure technique can be easily adjusted AWAY from the frequency where this flicker effect occurs thereby SOLVING the "problem".

Keep in mind that the electronic shutter is one of the biggest selling points of the A9. It not only allows silent shooting, but enables the camera to shoot a 20 frames per second, black out free... a POWERFUL tool.

On the other hand, this flicker issue is EXTREMELY rare, and easily dealt with.

Remember; there were ONLY about 50 out of the 1,905 images that showed this so-called "banding", which in reality is just a flicker problem that can be eliminated by adjusting shutter speed.

HE even said it was not a big deal.

But Fro-knows has quite a history of anti-Sony rants and irrational behavior. His anti-Sony bias in general and hate for the A9 in particular is quite CLEAR:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tah7NLhqd0

^^^Doesn't this call into question his credibility?^^^



As Obi-wan said; "Nothing to see here..... MOVE ALONG."






BTW:

I like THIS video better, because it was actually carried out by a successful photographer who has demonstrated his familiarity with The Scientific Method:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyPc7g_W6yg&t=1s



Oh, and John Howard if someone can't discuss this "issue" without resorting to personal insults or ad hominem attacks AND they have a history of trolling, then they have NO credibility. A quick review of their posts tells the story...

chaman

One has to wonder if Sony pays this guy for all that advertisement or if there are people so intellectually shallow.... I find it hard that anyone could take such a shameful butt kissing seriously. Dignity must be an unknown term for this guy.

There should be ZERO banding, fanboy, ZERO. We all saw the video and yet you, still, find an excuse for Sony. Those same LED boards were present with the other cameras and ZERO banding was seen. If, according to you, the cause of the bands is from the LEDS then its something with the A9. Lighting conditions were even more favorable when the A9 was used. He said that when he used the Nikon and Canon it was under darker conditions. As always you have an aversion to even ACCEPT the banding issue CLEARLY present. As he himself said it MAY not be a big deal for some but if your best image of the day showed these bands then it could mean a BIG deal. You have a clear inability to be objective. You are not doing a service for Sony but only making it worse with such an attitude.

jackpinoh Loc: Kettering, OH 45419

Banding is due to 60 cycle/sec florescent lighting and causes banding in the red channel at some shutter speeds. Why would you be shooting sports indoors at 1/60 sec? I expect an update from Sony to fix this.

CHOLLY Loc: THE FLORIDA PANHANDLE!

Sony has.

But what you see in this video is NOT banding, but rather LED flicker when he had shutter speed set at 1/4000 of a second.

This is one of the the three problems with using an electronic shutter, but it is also the easiest to eliminate and control. And since the electronic shutter offers so many MAJOR advantages over a mechanical shutter, then it is well worth the minor risk of banding or in this case flicker one might encounter on a shoot.

Simply adjust the shutter speed up and poof; problem solved.

JPL

Great camera, no banding issue. Just check all the online reviews.

CHOLLY Loc: THE FLORIDA PANHANDLE!

BTW, the other two disadvantages of using an electronic shutter are the inability to use TTL flash and rolling shutter. Unfortunately the technology has not advanced far enough to deal with the former, but the latter has been addressed to dramatically increasing the readout speed of the imaging sensor and and image processor. In the case of the A9, rolling shutter has been reduced to the point at it is effectively absent under 99.99% of real life photographic situations.

Watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyPc7g_W6yg&t=1s

Ladies and gentlemen, this literally is not just an evolutionary camera, but a revolutionary camera as well. The things it can do at the price point Sony has set are AMAZING. This is good, because eventually, the technology will trickle down to prosumer and consumer level Sony cameras. Additionally, other manufacturers will HAVE to duplicate this performance... a good thing for everyone in the photography industry.

chaman

It happened at another shutter speed. In fact he didnt found any constant and it seem at random. Perhaps its better to hear and see the whole video and not only what you like to hear.

CHOLLY Loc: THE FLORIDA PANHANDLE!

Yep.

As Tony Northrup points out in the video above, people find ONE person who has a problem, be it "overheating" or "banding" or "rolling shutter"... then treat that single instance as though it applied to ALL Sony A9's.

Meanwhile, as you pointed out above, there are dozens of videos and articles about the A9 that actually show that the so-called issues listed really aren't issues at all:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osVWOUMW8vc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3aA9Ts7GZo&t=50s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQheFEilIao

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGVF6zxTkK4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWDmUhrokxs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtiDjRnBgo0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgmiREAxjO8

And my favorites:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urh1atd7J-c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyPc7g_W6yg

and of course:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX1sfy__7A4

(NOTE: a careful review of the ^^^Northrup video^^^ points out EXACTLY what is going on in THIS and other anti-A9 threads, perfectly illustrating that people are grabbing on one or two negative videos or articles and applying those results to ALL A9's across the board, even when OTHERS using more rigorous and repeatable techniques can't duplicate the "problems.")


JPL, I think you will find that the folk who scream the loudest about the so-called problems of the A9 are generally anti-Sony, and most are just trolls looking for negative attention. Others are people who just need to learn more about what the camera AND brand can do. If however, they approach this issue with a closed mind, and refuse to learn or try to be reasonable, then they really ARE trolls whose sole purpose is to get negative attention, and those people aren't worth the time or effort.

chaman

Really? What about ISO 100 and noise?

https://diglloyd.com/blog/2017/20170525_2056-Sony_A9-PatternNoise-at-ISO100.html

Banding discussed here, a more serious discussion without the involvement of a pathetic used car salesman attitude like here from the usual fanboy

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1492373/0


The banding IS THERE. Can it be improved with firmware? Could be. But insisting is not when various different and unrelated source show prove is silly. What can be gained from providing misinfo?

chaman

There is that troll word again. Are you really that limited? Who is screaming, who sounds like a paid advertisement? Only you. No one said it applied to all A9 cameras. That's a conclusion reached by an hysterical, and not too smart, fanboy like you. You POLLUTE every thread here with your shill. No objective info ever and what is worse you have never provided any evidence of your work to prove how awesome and what great advantages Sony has. Anyone can memorize and vomit specs and post advertisements.

chaman

You edited your first post to add absolutely nothing of value, other than add the world "troll" again. YOu are truly the gift that keeps on giving......nothing.

Cdouthitt Loc: Traverse City, MI

You using the word troll. Pot, ketttle, black.

chaman

We are talking about serious gear here. The Hasbro line of cameras are discussed in little threads like yours but thanks for trying!