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Nikon AF-P 70-300 VR from Walmart
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May 19, 2017 10:05:30   #
mas24 Loc: Southern CA
 
MtnMan wrote:
There are three reasons the AF-P interests me. First, the reports on image quality are very good. Second is the light weight. Third is that the pulse focusing motor is claimed to be faster and more accurate than the AF-S lenses.

The downside is the build quality: all plastic.


Interesting to know about the AF-P vs the AF-S.

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May 19, 2017 10:13:44   #
MtnMan Loc: ID
 
mas24 wrote:
Interesting to know about the AF-P vs the AF-S.


There are some other things to know bout the AF-P lenses. First, they come in VR and non VR versions with a $50 price difference. I wouldn't have non-VR on the 70-300.

BTW Nikon packaging pics are deceptive on this. They place the VR 18-55 in front of the non-VR 70-300 and make no explicit mention that it is not VR: you have to note their listing does not include it. The pic arrangement covers up where it would be.

Second, they do not have a VR switch. You have to turn it off in a menu. They claim this downgrade is a feature: it won't get swtched inadvertently.

Third, they won't autofocus with older Nikon cameras. They will with my D5300 but I need to upgrade the firmware.

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May 19, 2017 10:36:51   #
MikieLBS Loc: "Southeast of Disorder"
 
bpulv wrote:
I don't know if this is a grey market lens, but if you expand the product description on Walmart's website and look at the summery specifications at the bottom, you will notice that they claim the 70-300mm DX lens gives the equivalent of a 105mm-450mm lens on a DX camera. Does that make sense to anyone?


It doesn't matter if they are a DX or FX lens. You ALWAYS multiply (by 1.5 on Nikon) for the effective mm for a crop factor camera.

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May 19, 2017 12:57:13   #
Ron 717 Loc: Pennsylvania
 
MtnMan wrote:
Has anyone purchased this?

I'm 90% sure it would be gray market but am willing to take a chance on that. More wondering if it is a complete scam because it is half price.

I'll put the link in a reply in hopes it doesn't get moved to links.


It states out of stock.

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May 19, 2017 13:35:51   #
IBM
 
bpulv wrote:
The pictures on the D800 are better than when I've used it on the D90 because the D800 has a 36Mp full frame sensor and the D90 has a 12Mp crop frame sensor. In postproduction, if I crop the frame from a 300mm FX lens on the D800 to the 450mm equivalent of a DX lens mounted on the D800, the image area on the sensor will be about 20-24Mp. I can, therefore make larger enlargements when the lens is on the D800. I can crop the pictures to an angle of view that substantially exceeds that of a 500-600mm or more lens in postproduction and maintain better or equal quality to the same lens on the D90.

The same thing is true for other lenses. For example, I have a 24-70mm f2.8 FX Nikon lens that I keep on the D800 95% of the time. Because of the D800's high megapixel sensor, I can take a picture with the lens at 70mm and crop the frame in post production so the angle of view is that of an approximately 200-300mm lens without an appreciable loss of image quality.
The pictures on the D800 are better than when I've... (show quote)


The D800 likes the expensive lenses, so if you take a image with the D800 with the 70-300mm , then take a more costly zoom like your
24-70 f2.8 and take a few shots at different fstops , you will have to zoom both to 70 mm as that's all they have i.n common, and both on
Tripod, it would better with both of them to have a zoom to 200mm or more then you could compare all the way to end . And you could
See the image and the difference there is , you could even enlarge them to see how much the d90 would be left behind, I have seen many
Images taken with a lot lesser cameras that I would be happy with ,

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May 19, 2017 13:38:01   #
Screamin Scott Loc: Marshfield Wi, Baltimore Md, now Dallas Ga
 
It all comes down to what the end user finds acceptable...

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May 19, 2017 14:14:40   #
Dngallagher Loc: Wilmington De.
 
bpulv wrote:
I think you have it wrong. The lens in question is a DX (crop) lens, not an FX (full frame) lens, and its real focal length is 70-300mm, with an image circle that is just sufficient to enclose a DX sensor. If you were to use it on a full frame camera that does not automatically limit the portion of its sensor used to that of a crop sensor, the resulting picture will be a circle, not a rectangle because the image circle of a DX lens is smaller than that of an FX lens.

If you use an FX lens on a DX camera, the sensor will crop the image to cover the same angle of view as a 105mm to 450mm lens. That is because the image circle on a full frame lens is substantially larger than the DX sensor's rectangular shape.

In any case, the focal length stamped on the lens is the true focal length regardless of size of the camera's sensor it is used on. If the lens is 300mm, it means that it will bring an object at infinity distance into focus when the rear of the lens is 300mm from the sensor regardless of the size of the sensor. A 300mm FX lens does not change its focal length to 450mm when it is used on a DX camera, it crops the image to the equivalent of 450mm because the sensor utilizes less of the area within the image circle. Therefore, a 70mm-300mm DX lens is 70-300mm on a DX camera and not the equivalent of 105mm-450mm as the vendor indicated in the add.
I think you have it wrong. The lens in question is... (show quote)


In reality, I think I have it right - a DX camera is a CROP sensor camera, so the field of view is multiplied by the crop factor, on a Nikon that is 1.5, so that gives ANY lens the equivalent field of view of a lens that is 1.5 times longer than on an FX camera. The field of view is often mistaken for magnification, it is NOT magnification though.

I agree 100%, a 300 mm lens IS a 300mm lens regardless of the crop factor, BUT, the FIELD OF VIEW is multiplied by the crop factor and equates to the same field of view of a longer lens on a FX (non-crop) camera.

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May 19, 2017 14:58:36   #
bpulv Loc: Buena Park, CA
 
Dngallagher wrote:
In reality, I think I have it right - a DX camera is a CROP sensor camera, so the field of view is multiplied by the crop factor, on a Nikon that is 1.5, so that gives ANY lens the equivalent field of view of a lens that is 1.5 times longer than on an FX camera. The field of view is often mistaken for magnification, it is NOT magnification though.

I agree 100%, a 300 mm lens IS a 300mm lens regardless of the crop factor, BUT, the FIELD OF VIEW is multiplied by the crop factor and equates to the same field of view of a longer lens on a FX (non-crop) camera.
In reality, I think I have it right - a DX camera ... (show quote)


I am not sure you do have it right. On a DX camera, it is the lens that determines if there is a crop factor. A DX lens on a DX camera has no crop factor because the image circle is only a little bigger than the diagonal size of the sensor. An FX lens on a DX camera does have the 1.5 crop factor because the image circle is substantially larger than the diagonal size of the FX . It is, in fact a little bigger than the diagonal size of an FX camera's sensor.

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May 19, 2017 15:00:35   #
Screamin Scott Loc: Marshfield Wi, Baltimore Md, now Dallas Ga
 
bpulv wrote:
I am not sure you do have it right. On a DX camera, it is the lens that determines if there is a crop factor. A DX lens on a DX camera has no crop factor because the image circle is only a little bigger than the diagonal size of the sensor. An FX lens on a DX camera does have the 1.5 crop factor because the image circle is substantially larger than the diagonal size of the FX . It is, in fact a little bigger than the diagonal size of an FX camera's sensor.

Wrong....

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May 19, 2017 15:07:12   #
Dngallagher Loc: Wilmington De.
 
bpulv wrote:
I am not sure you do have it right. On a DX camera, it is the lens that determines if there is a crop factor. A DX lens on a DX camera has no crop factor because the image circle is only a little bigger than the diagonal size of the sensor. An FX lens on a DX camera does have the 1.5 crop factor because the image circle is substantially larger than the diagonal size of the FX . It is, in fact a little bigger than the diagonal size of an FX camera's sensor.



No, not so, it is the sensor that determines the crop factor - can you show some proof of your conclusions?

If I use an FX lens on my Nikon, it will be a cropped field of view, if I use a DX lens it also is a cropped field of view.... You have an issue if you use a DX lens on an FX camera because of the image circle, but not if you use an FX lens on a DX (The sensor sits in the middle of the circle)

On a Canon, the crop factor is 1.6 (I believe), again, the sensor determines the crop factor, not the lens.

https://photographylife.com/nikon-dx-vs-fx/

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May 19, 2017 15:58:41   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
Dngallagher wrote:
In reality, I think I have it right - a DX camera is a CROP sensor camera, so the field of view is multiplied by the crop factor, on a Nikon that is 1.5, so that gives ANY lens the equivalent field of view of a lens that is 1.5 times longer than on an FX camera. The field of view is often mistaken for magnification, it is NOT magnification though.

I agree 100%, a 300 mm lens IS a 300mm lens regardless of the crop factor, BUT, the FIELD OF VIEW is multiplied by the crop factor and equates to the same field of view of a longer lens on a FX (non-crop) camera.
In reality, I think I have it right - a DX camera ... (show quote)


You are correct! Now stop reading or somebody will try to scramble your brains.

--

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May 19, 2017 16:26:49   #
Dngallagher Loc: Wilmington De.
 
Bill_de wrote:
You are correct! Now stop reading or somebody will try to scramble your brains.

--


I am pretty sure it's too late for that!

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May 19, 2017 20:14:39   #
IBM
 
I never came across such drivel , all full frame lens will work on a dx camera with out any hitches , plane and simple

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May 20, 2017 04:51:51   #
bpulv Loc: Buena Park, CA
 
Dngallagher wrote:
No, not so, it is the sensor that determines the crop factor - can you show some proof of your conclusions?

If I use an FX lens on my Nikon, it will be a cropped field of view, if I use a DX lens it also is a cropped field of view.... You have an issue if you use a DX lens on an FX camera because of the image circle, but not if you use an FX lens on a DX (The sensor sits in the middle of the circle)

On a Canon, the crop factor is 1.6 (I believe), again, the sensor determines the crop factor, not the lens.

https://photographylife.com/nikon-dx-vs-fx/
No, not so, it is the sensor that determines the c... (show quote)


The sensor is only half of the equation. The lens is the other half. The crop factor is a combination of the two.

Here is a method for proving it yourself. Take one DX lens and one FX lens, the focal length is not important. Use a white sheet of paper as a target. Take the lenses outside and first take the DX lens and holding it in you hand move it back and forth using the white paper in place of the sensor or film. Adjust the distance of the lens to the paper so that a subject at infinity is in focus and note the diameter of the circular image on the paper. Now repeat the same process with the FX lens and note that the circular image is larger than that of the DX lens. A camera's sensor size determines how much of that circular image is in your picture. The minimum image circle for an FX lens (sensor size about 24 X 36mm) is approximately 44mm; i.e., the diagonal measurement of the sensor. The minimum image circle for a DX lens (sensor size about 24 X 16mm) is approximately 29mm.

For a DX lens on a DX body the crop factor is always 1:1. For an FX lens on an FX body, the crop factor is always 1:1. When a DX lens is used on a FX body, the camera's electronics uses only the center part of the sensor (24 X 16mm) since anything outside that area is useless information. It is all mathematics.

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May 20, 2017 06:39:46   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
bpulv wrote:
The sensor is only half of the equation. The lens is the other half. The crop factor is a combination of the two.

Here is a method for proving it yourself. Take one DX lens and one FX lens, the focal length is not important. Use a white sheet of paper as a target. Take the lenses outside and first take the DX lens and holding it in you hand move it back and forth using the white paper in place of the sensor or film. Adjust the distance of the lens to the paper so that a subject at infinity is in focus and note the diameter of the circular image on the paper. Now repeat the same process with the FX lens and note that the circular image is larger than that of the DX lens. A camera's sensor size determines how much of that circular image is in your picture. The minimum image circle for an FX lens (sensor size about 24 X 36mm) is approximately 44mm; i.e., the diagonal measurement of the sensor. The minimum image circle for a DX lens (sensor size about 24 X 16mm) is approximately 29mm.

For a DX lens on a DX body the crop factor is always 1:1. For an FX lens on an FX body, the crop factor is always 1:1. When a DX lens is used on a FX body, the camera's electronics uses only the center part of the sensor (24 X 16mm) since anything outside that area is useless information. It is all mathematics.
The sensor is only half of the equation. The lens ... (show quote)


While you're experiment may prove something, it has nothing to do with the crop factor. The crop factor has to do with what the camera will capture, not what falls beyond the sensor. The smaller sensor "CROPS" out what the larger sensor would capture. That is what matters to the person behind the camera actually shooting.


--

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