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Realistic distance for shooting with a long fixed lens.
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Apr 6, 2017 15:47:04   #
RRS Loc: Not sure
 
Jolly Roger wrote:
If you go to another post I did yesterday titled "Leucistic Sika Deer" you will find them.


After looking I don't think it bad when you take everything into account. Everyone has pointed out the obvious reasons that it is not a wall hanger but it is a record of what you saw. Think, if that was a shot of "Big Foot" I don't think anyone would complain. I took some shots of wolves working a bison herd from a distance of over 1/2 mile just to record how they did it. I had wind, dust and heat to deal with and there was no way I could shorten the distance between me and the subjects. There is one other thing you could try and that is live view with a cable release and if that isn't any better then you need to move in closer or wait for after a rain and no wind.

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Apr 6, 2017 18:16:56   #
aellman Loc: Boston MA
 
Jolly Roger wrote:
This is primarily directed to members that shoot with long fixed lenses.

Yesterday I was out shooting with the 7DII, 600 f4 plus 1.4TC.
(I have just posted a couple of shots under the post title of "Leucistic Sika Deer").
The shots were at approx. Half a mile. Sky overcast. Temperature approx. 12 Degrees Celcius.
I suspect I need to micro adjust this setup but I can't see that it would result in much better images.
My question is:- Is it realistic or not, to expect sharp images at this distance?
Thanks in anticipation.
This is primarily directed to members that shoot w... (show quote)


If you can get a sharp image a mile away, you are also qualified to be a military sniper.

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Apr 6, 2017 23:00:18   #
10MPlayer Loc: California
 
On anything other than a cold clear morning the heat waves would kill any kind of shot you took. As a land surveyor we often had to take measurements of 1/2 mile (1/4 section - 40 chains) or 1 mile ( 1 section - 80 chains) to break down section lines. We went out at the crack of dawn to get the shots before the sun came all the way up and caused the churning of the atmosphere. Now we use GPS equipment that doesn't care about optics or atmospheric bending of light and it gets much better results. So the bottom line is, if you want any kind of usable results you need those rare cold clear mornings before the sun has a chance to warm the lower atmosphere.

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Apr 7, 2017 01:25:08   #
tdekany Loc: Oregon
 
rmalarz wrote:
I would say you have a couple of things working against you. First, and foremost, the distance. That is quite a small subject at that distance. Next, the TC can introduce additional optical issues. It not only multiplies your focal length by 1.4, it also magnifies any optical aberrations by 1.4, as well. I'm not familiar with your camera enough to know if it is an FX or DX format. However, once we get to the projected image size, the number of and size of each photosite on the sensor is going to be a part of the issue as well. I hope this answers some of your questions.
--Bob
I would say you have a couple of things working ag... (show quote)


How do you not know that the 7D Mark 2 is an APSC camera? I don't mean to single you out, but it always boggles my mind when I read stuff like this. You know, a canon shooter claiming not to know anything about Nikon or vice versa. How is that even possible? I mean I use a m4/3 camera and I know every canon/Nikon camera and what format they are. With so many post counts, do you not run into other camera brands? Cheese and rice! You enjoy your weekend.

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Apr 7, 2017 06:36:23   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
tdekany wrote:
How do you not know that the 7D Mark 2 is an APSC camera? I don't mean to single you out, but it always boggles my mind when I read stuff like this. You know, a canon shooter claiming not to know anything about Nikon or vice versa. How is that even possible? I mean I use a m4/3 camera and I know every canon/Nikon camera and what format they are. With so many post counts, do you not run into other camera brands? Cheese and rice! You enjoy your weekend.


I have been shooting Nikon for 20+ years and Pentax for 20 before that. I have no interest in Canon model numbers and seeing one I wouldn't know if it was a full frame, a crop sensor, or an old film camera. I drive a Jeep and have no interest in model designations of other brands. I imagine there are as many people who feel this way as there are people who, like you, are interested in other products.

To each their own.

--

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Apr 7, 2017 15:19:36   #
tdekany Loc: Oregon
 
Bill_de wrote:
I have been shooting Nikon for 20+ years and Pentax for 20 before that. I have no interest in Canon model numbers and seeing one I wouldn't know if it was a full frame, a crop sensor, or an old film camera. I drive a Jeep and have no interest in model designations of other brands. I imagine there are as many people who feel this way as there are people who, like you, are interested in other products.

To each their own.

--


Now, If I lived in NYC with no intention of EVER leaving the island, I could see me not getting familiar with 4x4 vehicles. But your excuse is not a good one - in fact, you don't even have an excuse. Why would you not be interested in knowing "something" about the 1 brand that competes with what you use head to head? I would expect you to hang out on a nikon specific forum with your attitude to be honest.

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Apr 8, 2017 07:09:52   #
Jolly Roger Loc: Dorset. UK
 
TomV wrote:


I would try using the same setup and testing at different distances. This will give you an idea of how your photos degrade with distance.


Thanks. Sounds like a sensible approach.

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Apr 8, 2017 07:25:23   #
Jolly Roger Loc: Dorset. UK
 
wdross wrote:
f4 seems like it was wide open. You might want to go to SLRGear a see how the lense does without the teleconverter at wide open. I know that the Olympus 300 f4, as sharp as it is, is slightly sharper stopped down from wide open. Add the 1.4X tele and its optical design, and the image quality at wide open may be affect more than if it was stopped down a stop or two.


Thanks for your comments. My dilemma was poor light and wishing to avoid high ISO's. I've just had a look at SLRGear.

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Apr 8, 2017 07:35:24   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
tdekany wrote:
Now, If I lived in NYC with no intention of EVER leaving the island, I could see me not getting familiar with 4x4 vehicles. But your excuse is not a good one - in fact, you don't even have an excuse. Why would you not be interested in knowing "something" about the 1 brand that competes with what you use head to head? I would expect you to hang out on a nikon specific forum with your attitude to be honest.


That would limit the photos I get to see. The point is, when I see a photo I am interested in subject, composition, etc., not what camera was used. As we so often hear, it is the person behind the camera that makes the difference. If you believe it is the camera, that's fine with me.

---

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Apr 8, 2017 08:05:34   #
Jolly Roger Loc: Dorset. UK
 
amfoto1 wrote:
I am not entirely sure of the distance... but the image below was done with Canon 500mm IS lens fitted with both Canon 2X II and 1.4X II teleconverters (1400mm effective focal length...image EXIF is incorrect), on an older, 6MP APS-C camera (so no micro adjustment possible and equivalent to 2240mm on full frame). Everything was mounted a stable tripod and in-lens image stabilization was engaged (its the self-cancelling type, on this lens). I don't recall using mirror lockup, but probably not since 1/160 shutter speed isn't prone to mirror slap. Largely un-cropped here, image was done at ISO 200 and was shot RAW. A bit of sharpening plus some boost of contrast and color saturation were needed in post processing:



Image is more an experiment with the stacked teleconverters than a serious shot. It's okay in small size and at Internet resolutions, but not very printable much larger than 5x7".

The problem with super long telephoto work at great distances is that atmospheric conditions come into play... and you can't do much about them. Above was shot shortly after a rain shower when the air was clearer than usual. It was also lightly overcast, with some late afternoon sun peeking through on the right. Cool, too... so there weren't any heat mirage effects. Little or no wind, either. Even a light breeze can have an effect at such distances. I don't recall if I put a sandbag on top of the lens/camera rig... I do that sometimes when using very long telephotos, to help absorb vibrations.

High density sensors such as 7DII are probably more susceptible to camera shake blur, than older low resolution models such as was used above. Canon issued a white paper about this, around the time they introduced the original, 18MP 7D. They recommended a step or two higher shutter speeds to offset the increased possibility of shake blur.... It's probably even more of a consideration with 20MP 7DII and 70D, the various 24MP APS-C models... even the 5Ds models, whose sensors have virtually the same density as 7DII's.
I am not entirely sure of the distance... but the ... (show quote)


Thanks for all the information Alan.

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Apr 8, 2017 08:19:15   #
Jolly Roger Loc: Dorset. UK
 
bwana wrote:
The last lens in any configuration is the atmosphere! The more moving air, the worse the image quality!! To really see the problem shoot a video with that long lens, then sit back and watch the image roil, pinch, wave, etc...

Of course, one can use the approach astrophotographers use; shoot multiple subs and use software to pick the best one or do it manually. With a 600mm lens I would recommend 40-50 subs in order to pick that really good one.

bwa


Thanks for the suggestion but I cannot see this method working with moving wildlife.

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Apr 8, 2017 08:20:51   #
Jolly Roger Loc: Dorset. UK
 
RRS wrote:
After looking I don't think it bad when you take everything into account. Everyone has pointed out the obvious reasons that it is not a wall hanger but it is a record of what you saw. Think, if that was a shot of "Big Foot" I don't think anyone would complain. I took some shots of wolves working a bison herd from a distance of over 1/2 mile just to record how they did it. I had wind, dust and heat to deal with and there was no way I could shorten the distance between me and the subjects. There is one other thing you could try and that is live view with a cable release and if that isn't any better then you need to move in closer or wait for after a rain and no wind.
After looking I don't think it bad when you take e... (show quote)


Thanks RRS

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Apr 8, 2017 08:21:34   #
Jolly Roger Loc: Dorset. UK
 
aellman wrote:
If you can get a sharp image a mile away, you are also qualified to be a military sniper.



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Apr 8, 2017 08:22:51   #
Jolly Roger Loc: Dorset. UK
 
10MPlayer wrote:
On anything other than a cold clear morning the heat waves would kill any kind of shot you took. As a land surveyor we often had to take measurements of 1/2 mile (1/4 section - 40 chains) or 1 mile ( 1 section - 80 chains) to break down section lines. We went out at the crack of dawn to get the shots before the sun came all the way up and caused the churning of the atmosphere. Now we use GPS equipment that doesn't care about optics or atmospheric bending of light and it gets much better results. So the bottom line is, if you want any kind of usable results you need those rare cold clear mornings before the sun has a chance to warm the lower atmosphere.
On anything other than a cold clear morning the he... (show quote)


Thanks for that 10MPlayer.

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Apr 8, 2017 11:48:27   #
tdekany Loc: Oregon
 
Bill_de wrote:
That would limit the photos I get to see. The point is, when I see a photo I am interested in subject, composition, etc., not what camera was used. As we so often hear, it is the person behind the camera that makes the difference. If you believe it is the camera, that's fine with me.

---


So why are you spending time in this forum? This isn't where people post their pictures and I see your name all the time. This is where all the gear related questions are being posted. You are full of manur mister.

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