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What is Photography?
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Jan 19, 2017 14:10:19   #
Djedi
 
dennis2146 wrote:
How many times have we seen photos submitted that are out of focus, poor composition etc.? Yet other members say the photos are first rate. ....Once I (without being asked) commented on composition on a submitted photo. I was jumped on six ways from Sunday by all comers as I didn't have a right to comment without being asked. So yes, all photos are wonderful to the photographer.
Dennis


Haaa haa... I can sympathize, had the same experience here, Dennis. Apparently the photog had a group that he took out on shoots and they all thought a photo he posted was just great, but I had some issues with it. Now I know to keep my big trap shut unless someone specifically asks for suggestions or the shot really is good.

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Jan 19, 2017 14:23:00   #
Rongnongno Loc: FL
 

I wonder how many who answered here have read the linked article...

Reading all the answers here I have one of my own:
A photograph is what riles all other folks. If one gets upset it's a photograph (or art). If you say Incredible!!! That's great! It is junk. THAT is how I read most of the answers here.

Under this criteria here is a work of art. It made one UHH user condemn who ever created it... "This is an easy one: morons can build buildings too!" Of course I reacted bluntly to that comment... Which was really feeding a troll. My mistake.

Just as this conversation does. The discussion could be at a much higher level IF the link had been read and understood.

Brian Rivera Uncapher wrote:
.../... So, a fine art photograph must go beyond the literal representation of a scene or subject. .../...

That, to me, is a full stop.

Who is that Brian Rivera Uncapher guy? The writer...

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Jan 19, 2017 14:28:11   #
Djedi
 
JaiGieEse wrote:
.....But does that mean that all this chin music is "crap," or "navel gazing?" I think not. It is, simply, an exchange of thoughts and ideas amongst folks who share a common interest - photography, in this case. If you don't like dealing with this "crap," or of you prefer to avoid engaging in "navel gazing," then why he futz are you reading this forum? ...


Well, I don't know about you guys, but I work at something else for a living, and right now I am waiting for my next "client". So, since I cannot go out and take the photos I would like to be taking, I am reading the many interesting posts on this forum. I used to be pro, but I love photography more when it is not a vocation that I have to participate in hour after hour every day. For me it is a passion. I see life with a frame around every "view" I gaze upon, be it a tangle of wires or an intensely lined ancient face or a beautiful body. Or it could be "capturing" an interesting juxtaposition of objects, colors, or shades.

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Jan 19, 2017 14:33:06   #
LFingar Loc: Claverack, NY
 
rvhowdy wrote:
Here is an image I captured in Vancouver. One has a slight adjustment to definition when I processed it in iPhoto. The other is the same image I processed in Aurora HDR. I like the HDR version better. But, I think this illustrates what the discussion is about. Your critique is welcome. Thanks.


These shots, and your opinion of them, help illustrate how subjective photography is. My opinion is a bit different then yours simply because my tastes are different. Then too, my monitor may display the shots differently then yours. To me, the first shot is a bit dark and muted. The second shot though, while brighter and more colorful, goes a bit too far for my tastes. The sky doesn't look natural and neither does the water under the dock. If I had taken the shot, to be happy with it I would want it to be somewhere in the middle. Someone else may like the darker shot better. It's all personal opinion.

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Jan 19, 2017 14:33:29   #
Djedi
 
double posted

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Jan 19, 2017 15:55:09   #
Fotoartist Loc: Detroit, Michigan
 
jux·ta·po·si·tion
noun
"The fact of two things being seen or placed close together with contrasting effect."

I see similarities and interesting contrasts between photography and painting in terms of subject matter, form, and content. Just as I see similarities and contrasts between photography purists and photographic post processing pictorialists. I celebrate all especially those that reveal surprising and powerful parallels and connections that at first appear to have nothing in common but nevertheless weave themselves through all.

[/quote]

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Jan 19, 2017 16:17:16   #
droszel
 
Here is the best description of what photography is I've ever read. It's from "Known and Strange Things: Essays" by Teju Cole:

"Photography is inescapably a memorial art. It selects, out of the flow of time, a moment to be preserved, with the moments before and after falling away like sheer cliffs. At a dinner party earlier this year, I was in conversation with someone who asked me to define photography. I suggested that it is about retention: not only the ability to make an image directly out of the interaction between light and the tangible world but also the possibility of saving that image. A shadow thrown onto a wall is not photography. But if the wall is photosensitive and the shadow remains after the body has moved on, that is photography. Human creativity, since the beginning of art, has found ways to double the visible world. What photography did was to give the world a way to double its own appearance: the photograph results directly from what is, from the light that travels from a body through an aperture onto a surface. But when the photograph outlives the body— when people die, scenes change, trees grow or are chopped down— it becomes a memorial. And when the thing photographed is a work of art or architecture that has been destroyed, this effect is amplified even further. A painting, sculpture, or temple, as a record of both human skill and emotion, is already a site of memory; when its only remaining trace is a photograph, that photograph becomes a memorial to a memory. Such a photograph is shadowed by its vanished ancestor."

Cole, Teju. Known and Strange Things: Essays (Kindle Locations 2574-2584). Random House Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

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Jan 19, 2017 17:06:49   #
machia Loc: NJ
 
JaiGieEse wrote:
As I read through this stuff, I cannot help but be reminded of the predicament of Ayn Rand's Howard Roark. You can either adhere to the restrictions imposed by others, or you can push the boundaries. Put another way, you could design McDonald's franchises or you could design houses like Frank Lloyd Wright's "Falling Waters."
Ahhhhh
Samuel Clemens, writing as Mark Twain, said it best, methinks. "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
As I read through this stuff, I cannot help but be... (show quote)

Ahhhh , but never forget to drop your center-board and never belay your sheet ! 😉

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Jan 22, 2017 13:12:31   #
wj cody Loc: springfield illinois
 
SharpShooter wrote:
That is SOOO true!
Back in MY day, if I didn't get stepped on by a dinosaur that day...., IT WAS A GOOD DAY!!!
NOW, I even have to look both ways before crossing a street...., and that's WITHOUT a camera!!!
SS


have to agree with you on this one SS. there is now endless, and sometimes less than civil, parsing, all to nonce.

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Jan 22, 2017 15:03:31   #
donziska
 
Every thing is definable. One does not have to agree with it but it is there. We have beat it to death and it comes down to the question of certain facts. You don't have to believe them and you can still take pictures of what you want and enjoy them. Some would say it is what I say it is. I agree. Amen. Don

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Jan 22, 2017 21:00:39   #
boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander
 
Festus wrote:
And everyone of the "true photographers" post processed! Just take a look at the most famous of Ansel Adams various prints. Every one of them has been "post processed" numerous times. Ansel dodged and burned, and burn and dodged his negatives numerous times in the darkroom over the years. There is essentially no difference between a darkroom and Photoshop. The main difference is that Photoshop, just like the digital cameras we now use, is just more sophisticated than the darkroom.
And everyone of the "true photographers"... (show quote)


I don't agree that computer programs (PP) are more sophisticated than the darkroom. The chemical soup that develops the film is dependant on many things. Time,temp, type are all v ariable is is film. Asa as stated or pushed and how many stops? What brand of enlarger. Which EL lens at what stop. Dodging burning cropping, framing, etc. I haven't even started on printing. Anyone who has spent hours in the darkroom knows it is extremely sophisticated. There are things that you can do in the darkroom that can't be done with a computer. In digital you press the shutter and you have the image. In film you press the shutter and you don't have the image. All you have is the latent image on the film. you don't have the image(Negative) untill the film is processed. With digital PP is totally voluntary. You can print that image with no processing whatsoever. Film on the other hand MUST be processed, it's not voluntary at all.

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Jan 23, 2017 16:00:44   #
TheDman Loc: USA
 
boberic wrote:
I don't agree that computer programs (PP) are more sophisticated than the darkroom. The chemical soup that develops the film is dependant on many things. Time,temp, type are all v ariable is is film. Asa as stated or pushed and how many stops? What brand of enlarger. Which EL lens at what stop. Dodging burning cropping, framing, etc. I haven't even started on printing. Anyone who has spent hours in the darkroom knows it is extremely sophisticated. There are things that you can do in the darkroom that can't be done with a computer. In digital you press the shutter and you have the image. In film you press the shutter and you don't have the image. All you have is the latent image on the film. you don't have the image(Negative) untill the film is processed. With digital PP is totally voluntary. You can print that image with no processing whatsoever. Film on the other hand MUST be processed, it's not voluntary at all.
I don't agree that computer programs (PP) are more... (show quote)


You mustn't have heard of raw.

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Jan 23, 2017 16:20:01   #
wj cody Loc: springfield illinois
 
burkphoto wrote:
Huh?

'Photography' is whatever 'writing with light' you want to do. We're all better off if we quit navel gazing about it and just go do it!


agreed - who in hell cares what it is - those who do know, just go out and do it!

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Jan 23, 2017 16:23:21   #
wj cody Loc: springfield illinois
 
machia wrote:
Ahhhh , but never forget to drop your center-board and never belay your sheet ! 😉


which reminds me of the volvo racing team "discovering" a reef in the middle of the volvo ocean race (used to be the Fastnet). cost more to repair the hull than it cost to build. have a great photo of the team standing on the reef, in the middle of the ocean, with water up to their ankles. you might assume there were some helm and navigation personnel changes, but, being volvo, i could be wrong.

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Jan 24, 2017 08:00:26   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
JaiGieEse wrote:
There is, amongst subscribers of this forum, an apparently endless debate as to what true photography really is. Some belong to GIRITC crowd - i.e., "Get it right in the camera." These folk decry any form of post-processing, saying that an image altered in any way after the fact is not a true representation of the photographed scene at the instant of capture. True enough, although some GIRITC shooters will engage in PRE-processing, as in, changing the camera's settings (other than exposure, shutter speed, iso and flash) BEFORE capturing the shot. Which is, again, not a true representation of the photographed scene at the instant of capture. Others insist on shooting only jpegs, saying THAT format yields a true representation of the photographed scene at the instant of capture, because no settings are changed by the shooter prior to capture, AH, but the CAMERA, in capturing a jpeg image, is using its built-in software to decide how the image should appear. So the camera alters the images w/o input from the shooter, SO, one more time, this is not an altogether true representation of the photographed scene at the instant of capture.

Of course, this argument may be worth pursuing if one is intent on rendering an image as close as possible to the scene being photographed as it existed at the moment of capture. Such shooters are sometimes referred to as "purists" and in other situations as "photo-journalists." Now if that's the way one wishes to approach the craft of photography, well, that's fine. BUT, one person's snapshot is another person's news image is another person's Facebook/Twitter/Instagram shot.

But what if the shooter decides this isn't the way to go? What if the shooter wants to create an image that's not just what the camera sees, but what the shooter sees. Ah. The IPTMFAICI crowd. (I'll process the, um, image after I capture it.) This is when one moves into the area of, um, ART. Which, as an independent photographer, I have every right to do. You don't care for the approach? Fine. You go your way, and I'll go my way ... and I'll get to Loch Lorman aforrrree yeeee... (Sorry. Couldn't resist.). Ah, but I've run across an article which explains this concept quite clearly. And here 'tis, laddie.

http://photographylife.com/what-is-fine-art-photography#more-138580
There is, amongst subscribers of this forum, an ap... (show quote)


Photography is magic!

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