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Any Successful Photography Business persons?
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Oct 23, 2016 03:01:16   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
Gene51 wrote:
Jay,

The most important parts of a successful business is to have clear goals, a mission statement and a solid, well-articulated plan to guide you to achieving your goals.

What most struggling photographers fail to understand is that given the competitive nature of the business, you have to do at least 2 things better than anyone else. And one of them is definitely not having amazing photographs. You are not selling pictures. You are selling yourself and the customer experience that only you can provide. You should also find a niche you are happy with and work it like your life depends on it.

Back to the business plan for a moment. Elements of a good business plan include:
Objectives
Mission statement
A description of why you are different - why would people use you as opposed to someone else?
How your company is owned and organized
Leases
Startup cost summary
what you offer - pricing and profitability
your market analysis - who is your target customer
your strategy - who your competitors are, and how you will be perceived as offering a better customer experience
a summary of your marketing program and sales strategy, along with a considered sales strategy and forecast
a financial plan that identifies in detail your assumptions, break even analysis, projected profit&loss and cash flow, and an exit strategy.

Notice, I have not talked about pictures. The reason is that you are not in business to tell others how great your pictures are. You are in business to find and assess prospects, finding out what they need and educating them about how you will provide that, (within reason, of course), seal the deal and take the pictures. You will likely spend the majority of your time doing everything else, and the least time taking the shots.

If you fail to have a clear and concise concept of your business, you will not be successful. You could be the best photographer ever to walk the earth, but you will be poor.

As far as the image you posted is concerned - before passing any judgement on the technical merit, my first question would have been what was your intent - which you stated in a later response. And I think though the image could be improved upon technically, you hit the nail on the head as far as capturing a moment and telling a meaningful story. I cannot tell you how many images I have taken and put into a proof set that I would not have selected based on technical flaws, but the client absolutely loved, and asked to be printed. This one falls into that category - it has meaning - in this case, to you. People tend to overlook flaws in pictures of people. Though something like this would not be tolerated in commercial work.

I have been a photographer for 50 yrs - and have done commercial work, portraiture, events, sports, architectural, etc - and i have made a decent living at it. Paid the bills, put 3 kids through college - you know the drill. It can be done, but you have to persevere and never let a good opportunity pass.

I am not sure if this answers your question, but I hope that it will help organize your business concept.
Jay, br br The most important parts of a successf... (show quote)



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Oct 23, 2016 03:29:18   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
jaywilliams wrote:
My question is, how many of you are actually successful business owners of a photography shop? If so, what are some tips you can and are willing to share with the community and myself on how to go about starting or getting a successful business going?

See I've been trying to get a Photography studio going for quite some time now and have not had any success on even getting an appointment set that actually shows up for the session(s).

It's very frustrating because even setting a session has been costing me money in the end. Why? You ask... Well, because the building I have setup is pay by job, and sadly, has to be paid for before the session takes place with no refunds. Welcome to my town. Anyways, I guess some great tips on advertising would be a good start!

Please HELP!!!
My question is, how many of you are actually succe... (show quote)


As Gene51 has stated in more detail, get your ducks in a row if you want to get into the professional photography business. None of us want to destroy a person's dreams of being a pro photographer. But we UHHs do want anyone getting into the business to be realistic about it. The main reason I did not go full time pro was that I could not meet some of the financial and other commitments as outlined by Gene51. As some have indicated, it is a very competitive pro market. And as the need for that market shrinks in the eyes of the consumer due to sophisticated cameras, cellphones, and lower expectations in quality, the market will become even more competitive. Do your homework before you make the leap.

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Oct 23, 2016 05:50:58   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
mwsilvers wrote:
Yes, but at the end of the day, you also have to have a salable product.


And I am sure you'll agree, that the best judge of the value of an image is the person paying for it. Often, we as photographers are critical of images in ways that are different from the consumer, and often much more so.

I have a friend that I occasionally work with when he can't find a second shooter to help. To my eye, his images are strikingly underwhelming. But he works about 45 weddings a year. He is a pro, and makes a good living at it. I don't consider his work salable, but in his geographic area, his clients love his work, and many of his clients are referrals from other happy clients. He does an amazing job at selling himself, and he goes out of his way to ensure his clients are happy. Clearly his clients are buying more than a bunch of pictures - and he delivers.

As I hinted earlier, event and portrait photographers are primarily in the business of selling the customer experience and value they provide. Their success can be attributed how great a job they do of selling themselves by exceeding customer expectations, and how happy their clients are when it's over. Often clients will "overlook" flaws in the images. This is how shooters that produce mediocre images can be successful. One thing is certain, average photographers can make money, and great photographers are not always successful, and that is usually because they often believe their work is so great that it will sell itself. Well, it doesn't in many cases. The photographer has to be skillful at people skills, revealing the customer's expectations and convincing the prospects that they will get the best experience when they select him/her for the job. In NY, we call that "schmoozing." After all, there are many good photographers out there, especially young ones with lots of energy and newly acquired and solid photographic skills. But most lack the business acumen that can only be learned by years of experience selling services. Sad to say, but images have become a commodity, and often, the only thing separating the guys and gals earning a living at this is their ability to market and sell themselves - not making amazing pictures.

The minute the photographer's sales presentation turns away from the client's desires and becomes focused on the photographer's talent, the client will sense trouble ahead and will pass at the "opportunity" to have such a photographer shoot their event. Lawyers and Doctors may be able to get away with stuff like this - but not photographers.

So based on what I have seen over the past 50 yrs, having a "salable" product is not a prerequisite to being successful if your definition of sale-ability is nice prints - though I will agree that it doesn't hurt to have good pictures if everything else is in place.

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Oct 23, 2016 10:06:54   #
ronz Loc: Florida
 
Not to be nasty but if this is a sample of your wotk and you are attempting to get paid for it I can readily see why you are struggling. There is a hugh difference between a snapshot and a portrait. There is no quick and easy way to learn. After over 25 years in the business and having a lot of my work published, I can say I still learn new things. I strongly suggest you get some education on the area you are most interested in and perhaps if you are lucky, a working studio may let you shadow them as they shoot some event. Since the advent of digital many people thought they were professionals and not a month passes that I don't get a call asking if I can help because they hired a person to shoot a wedding, a portrait, an engagement session etc.and they were in tears. The camera does not make the photographer and unfortunately many people out there believ it has made them a professional. Good luck to you

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Oct 23, 2016 23:57:15   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
ronz wrote:
Not to be nasty but if this is a sample of your wotk and you are attempting to get paid for it I can readily see why you are struggling. There is a hugh difference between a snapshot and a portrait. There is no quick and easy way to learn. After over 25 years in the business and having a lot of my work published, I can say I still learn new things. I strongly suggest you get some education on the area you are most interested in and perhaps if you are lucky, a working studio may let you shadow them as they shoot some event. Since the advent of digital many people thought they were professionals and not a month passes that I don't get a call asking if I can help because they hired a person to shoot a wedding, a portrait, an engagement session etc.and they were in tears. The camera does not make the photographer and unfortunately many people out there believ it has made them a professional. Good luck to you
Not to be nasty but if this is a sample of your wo... (show quote)


It's wrong to judge a person's work from a single image.

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Oct 24, 2016 01:36:32   #
Bozsik Loc: Orangevale, California
 
Gene51 wrote:
It's wrong to judge a person's work from a single image.


Gene replied to the poster's question based upon what was presented. No following images have been submitted as requested by many here who would like to help. He has been able to obtain very accurate and helpful info for no charge, from some very reliable people. Nobody is judging, they are simply pointing out the obvious points.

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Oct 24, 2016 02:12:03   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
Gene51 wrote:
And I am sure you'll agree, that the best judge of the value of an image is the person paying for it. Often, we as photographers are critical of images in ways that are different from the consumer, and often much more so.

I have a friend that I occasionally work with when he can't find a second shooter to help. To my eye, his images are strikingly underwhelming. But he works about 45 weddings a year. He is a pro, and makes a good living at it. I don't consider his work salable, but in his geographic area, his clients love his work, and many of his clients are referrals from other happy clients. He does an amazing job at selling himself, and he goes out of his way to ensure his clients are happy. Clearly his clients are buying more than a bunch of pictures - and he delivers.

As I hinted earlier, event and portrait photographers are primarily in the business of selling the customer experience and value they provide. Their success can be attributed how great a job they do of selling themselves by exceeding customer expectations, and how happy their clients are when it's over. Often clients will "overlook" flaws in the images. This is how shooters that produce mediocre images can be successful. One thing is certain, average photographers can make money, and great photographers are not always successful, and that is usually because they often believe their work is so great that it will sell itself. Well, it doesn't in many cases. The photographer has to be skillful at people skills, revealing the customer's expectations and convincing the prospects that they will get the best experience when they select him/her for the job. In NY, we call that "schmoozing." After all, there are many good photographers out there, especially young ones with lots of energy and newly acquired and solid photographic skills. But most lack the business acumen that can only be learned by years of experience selling services. Sad to say, but images have become a commodity, and often, the only thing separating the guys and gals earning a living at this is their ability to market and sell themselves - not making amazing pictures.

The minute the photographer's sales presentation turns away from the client's desires and becomes focused on the photographer's talent, the client will sense trouble ahead and will pass at the "opportunity" to have such a photographer shoot their event. Lawyers and Doctors may be able to get away with stuff like this - but not photographers.

So based on what I have seen over the past 50 yrs, having a "salable" product is not a prerequisite to being successful if your definition of sale-ability is nice prints - though I will agree that it doesn't hurt to have good pictures if everything else is in place.
And I am sure you'll agree, that the best judge of... (show quote)


Your arguments may be true, but in the end you still have to have a salable product, meaning a product that people are willing to pay you for. I never said the definition is nice prints, whatever that means. It is very definitely a prerequisite, for without salability, there is no business. So far the OP has had no takers selling his services and if his example is among his best efforts, he is, sadly, unlikely to succeed in a highly competitive and shrinking profession. Perhaps he could share other images which could alter our perception.

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Oct 24, 2016 02:16:13   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
Gene51 wrote:
It's wrong to judge a person's work from a single image.

That's very true. However we only have the one image, the one he shared at the very outset, and he has decided not to share any others. And I understand why he hadn't shared them. His stated purpose was not a critique of his work, but assistance getting into the business. In the end though, you have to have a product that other people will want, and I think that's what prompted many of the responses.

Reply
Oct 24, 2016 03:01:08   #
jcboy3
 
jaywilliams wrote:
My question is, how many of you are actually successful business owners of a photography shop? If so, what are some tips you can and are willing to share with the community and myself on how to go about starting or getting a successful business going?

See I've been trying to get a Photography studio going for quite some time now and have not had any success on even getting an appointment set that actually shows up for the session(s).

It's very frustrating because even setting a session has been costing me money in the end. Why? You ask... Well, because the building I have setup is pay by job, and sadly, has to be paid for before the session takes place with no refunds. Welcome to my town. Anyways, I guess some great tips on advertising would be a good start!

Please HELP!!!
My question is, how many of you are actually succe... (show quote)


As previously mentioned, you need to charge a non-refundable deposit that will cover your cost to rent studio space and your additional costs related to the session.

You need a business plan.

Do you have any certifications? If you don't, it is a good idea to get some. If you want a business, you need to separate yourself from the average "guy with camera".

Do you have a portfolio? You need one, and you need a selection of different types of portraits (wedding, engagement, corporate, head shots, torso, body, etc)

Do you belong to any professional organizations? You should, for connections, insurance, advice, etc.

And finally, don't publish anything but your best work. Keep your snapshots to yourself.

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Oct 24, 2016 04:14:44   #
tdekany Loc: Oregon
 
I wish the very best to the OP. I really hope that he becomes very successful. I would love to make a living as a photographer.

On another note, I do find it interesting that every time I come across a similar thread with a picture in the OP, it is never high quality. Either it is technically off, or it is just a snapshot. Each time the OP receives a less than positive feedback, the story is always the same. That it is just a shot the OP likes and it isn't his or her best. Not once have I seen the "best" shots posted afterwards. I am not suggesting that this is the case this time, but I do not see the logic behind not posting your very best pictures. After all, the person wants to make money at it, so he or she should post his or her very best shots period. M2C

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Oct 24, 2016 05:38:25   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
billnikon wrote:
I ran a successful wedding photography business from my homes for over 35 years. I never used a studio, shot pre-bridals in the brides home. I started out charging $25.00 and my last wedding netted over $4000.00 fifteen years ago. My words of wisdom, KNOW what your camera's will do BEFORE you start charging money, the customer is always right, always, don't start out to make money fast, rather, start out because you love photography and you love working for people and making them happy, the money will come. Make sure you have another job to pay the bills until the photography starts paying the bills. Don't get mad or upset, you are doing what you love and most folks don't even get a chance to do that. Stay humble and stay honest.
I ran a successful wedding photography business fr... (show quote)


Bill, your advice is golden!

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Oct 25, 2016 20:49:07   #
jaywilliams Loc: Topeka, Ks
 
Now that is the response i was asking for! Thank you so very much, all respect is to you!
Gene51 wrote:
Jay,

The most important parts of a successful business is to have clear goals, a mission statement and a solid, well-articulated plan to guide you to achieving your goals.

What most struggling photographers fail to understand is that given the competitive nature of the business, you have to do at least 2 things better than anyone else. And one of them is definitely not having amazing photographs. You are not selling pictures. You are selling yourself and the customer experience that only you can provide. You should also find a niche you are happy with and work it like your life depends on it.

Back to the business plan for a moment. Elements of a good business plan include:
Objectives
Mission statement
A description of why you are different - why would people use you as opposed to someone else?
How your company is owned and organized
Leases
Startup cost summary
what you offer - pricing and profitability
your market analysis - who is your target customer
your strategy - who your competitors are, and how you will be perceived as offering a better customer experience
a summary of your marketing program and sales strategy, along with a considered sales strategy and forecast
a financial plan that identifies in detail your assumptions, break even analysis, projected profit&loss and cash flow, and an exit strategy.

Notice, I have not talked about pictures. The reason is that you are not in business to tell others how great your pictures are. You are in business to find and assess prospects, finding out what they need and educating them about how you will provide that, (within reason, of course), seal the deal and take the pictures. You will likely spend the majority of your time doing everything else, and the least time taking the shots.

If you fail to have a clear and concise concept of your business, you will not be successful. You could be the best photographer ever to walk the earth, but you will be poor.

As far as the image you posted is concerned - before passing any judgement on the technical merit, my first question would have been what was your intent - which you stated in a later response. And I think though the image could be improved upon technically, you hit the nail on the head as far as capturing a moment and telling a meaningful story. I cannot tell you how many images I have taken and put into a proof set that I would not have selected based on technical flaws, but the client absolutely loved, and asked to be printed. This one falls into that category - it has meaning - in this case, to you. People tend to overlook flaws in pictures of people. Though something like this would not be tolerated in commercial work.

I have been a photographer for 50 yrs - and have done commercial work, portraiture, events, sports, architectural, etc - and i have made a decent living at it. Paid the bills, put 3 kids through college - you know the drill. It can be done, but you have to persevere and never let a good opportunity pass.

I am not sure if this answers your question, but I hope that it will help organize your business concept.
Jay, br br The most important parts of a successf... (show quote)

Reply
Oct 25, 2016 20:58:47   #
jaywilliams Loc: Topeka, Ks
 
tturner wrote:
This is a photo I took of my nephews and niece, I posed them on the floor in my Brother in law's dining room. I did this with my cell phone. I do not claim to be a pro, however the first respondent was right. If this is how you present yourself, "don't quit your day job. Why should people pay you when they can do just as good or better themselves.


I have to say, it is well done, but the thing is... i didnt post that picture as a guide, it was just a photo I wanted to have in the post.

My family
My family...

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Oct 25, 2016 21:03:34   #
jaywilliams Loc: Topeka, Ks
 
Well, honestly... I get where you are coming from. However, I dont have my work loaded onto my phone. sorry about that. I dont just post to any site. I have not been on this site for more than 6 years. I don't know what type of photographers are here anymore. Do you get that?

tdekany wrote:
I wish the very best to the OP. I really hope that he becomes very successful. I would love to make a living as a photographer.

On another note, I do find it interesting that every time I come across a similar thread with a picture in the OP, it is never high quality. Either it is technically off, or it is just a snapshot. Each time the OP receives a less than positive feedback, the story is always the same. That it is just a shot the OP likes and it isn't his or her best. Not once have I seen the "best" shots posted afterwards. I am not suggesting that this is the case this time, but I do not see the logic behind not posting your very best pictures. After all, the person wants to make money at it, so he or she should post his or her very best shots period. M2C
I wish the very best to the OP. I really hope that... (show quote)

Reply
Oct 26, 2016 01:48:46   #
tdekany Loc: Oregon
 
jaywilliams wrote:
Well, honestly... I get where you are coming from. However, I dont have my work loaded onto my phone. sorry about that. I dont just post to any site. I have not been on this site for more than 6 years. I don't know what type of photographers are here anymore. Do you get that?


Well, you didn't like the Captain's opinion but you are asking for help on THIS site right? You said you didn't post that picture "impress" but then you were asked to show some of your work so members could express their opinion since you want to make some $$$$. Trust me, most of us are no good at this. But those who are, could give you valuable feedback. So let's see at least one.

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