ken hubert Loc: Missouri

Our substitute teacher on the Hogg, the self proclaimed genius Peter Nagy, aka PissNiggy, aka PissPot has made the claim that he could have saved Pearl Harbor from the Japanese attack on Dec. 7, 1941 and made some outrageous claims that he could have done better then the professionals that were there at the time. So I think it's time to examine his " reasoning ". I will do this point by point. Point 1) PissNiggy: " Decoded messages indicated the Japanese were planning something against the US just in case the FDR administration failed to set up higher level talks with Ambassador Nomura". PissNiggy's Logical Reaction: " Putting all US military assets in the Pacific on high alert". PissNiggy's take on Roosevelts actions " Sending all carriers assigned to Hawaii far away from the most obvious scene of enguagement. One need not have any hindsight to avoid such stupidity..." He goes on rambling for awhile about Mexico for awhile but I wont go there. In reality NOTHING in the Japanese Military Code JN25 gave any hint of an attack on Pearl Harbor. In fact the IJN changed the JN25 codes in November and were unreadable to the Americans at that moment. Furthermore all carriers and the supporting ships were under radio silence and the US Navy had not the foggiest idea where the IJN carriers were. As far as " planning something against the US" if PissNiggy had done a modicum of research he would have known that the Japanese military had already decided that they would have to attack and defeat the US. The Pearl Harbor attack was first broached at the IJN War games in October 1940, incorporated into the IJN warplans in December 1940. Practice for the attack was started in early 1941 under Commander Genda. The attack was carried out in December 1941. Point 2) PissNiggy:" US SPY SHIP radioed Washington at the moment that the Japanese task force sailed from the Kurile Islands straight to Pearl Harbor". PissNigg's " Logical Reaction" : " Recall the three carriers back to the base ready to meet the enemy over open water, instead of letting him devastate Pearl Harbor, and put the base on 24 hour battle stations". PissNiggy's take on Roosevelt's action: " Make no attempt to correct previous moronic decision to remove Pearl Harbor's best defense, the three carriers, but compound the problem by chaining the ground based fighters to each other, allegedly to prevent sabatoge, but actually to assure maximum Japanese success to assure the dissolution of all domestic opposition to Roosevelt's intention to become a belligerent on the Allied side". ME: Here is where PissNiggy's ignorance and pure stupidity shine through. FIRST there was NO SPYSHIP, it would have been sunk. Furthermore a spyship of that time would have reported to Pearl Harbor not Washington as CINPAC would have responsibility for the Pacific and ONI Hawaii reported to him. Washington of that time didn't have a spy agency like the OSS until AFTER Pearl Harbor. SECOND: NO carriers were sent far away from PH to keep them safe. In fact the Saratoga ( FLETCHER ) had just come out of refit in Bremerton, Wa and had just arrived in San Diego to take on aircraft and form a new task force. The Enterprise ( HALSEY ) had left Pearl on November 27th to deliver aircraft to Wake Island. The Lexington ( NEWTON ) had left Pearl on December 5th to deliver aircraft to Midway Island. I now understand that map reading and geography are not your strong suits so you will have to take my word on it that two of those carriers were in harms way even though they didn't know it. YOU stated that you would have fought them on open water. How romantic even if stupid! I will break it down for you. IJN had 6 carriers for the attack, you would have had two. The Japanese could put 350+ aircraft into an attack with 100 in reserve, American carriers 168 total if all were serviceable which never happens. Max attack range of American carrier aircraft was 200 miles. Japanese carrier attack range was 275 -300. Upshot YOU LOSE!!! Results of actual PH attack: SHIPS- 8 Battleships sunk. ( 6 raised, refitted and returned to service. Arizona totally destroyed and Oklahoma capsized while being towed to Stateside), 3 cruisers sunk ( raised and refitted for service), 3 destroyers sunk (raised and refitted ), 1 mine layer sunk ( raised and refitted ) 1 AA target ship sunk ( former USS UTAH) still sunk and now a memorial in PH. CASUALTIES: 2,403 dead and 1,178 injured. LOSSES UNDER PIGNIGG'S ' COMMAND': SUNK- 2 carriers, 8 battleships, 3 cruisers, 3 destroyers, 1 AA ship, 1 minelayer. CASUALTIES- 7,985 dead and 1,178 injured. That's not counting more losses from further attacks as PissNiggy's fleet is on the bottom of the sea beyond all salvage and recovery. By the way PissNiggy, NO planes were chained together at PH. Maybe you had a bad LSD trip? Your point 3 is to stupid to rate a reply. All in all PissNiggy you couldn't even qualify as a plebe at Annapolis. Give up your dreams of being a navel expert and concentrate on being a substitute teacher. Who knows, maybe you might make it.

Texcaster Loc: Queensland

The wannabe history WRITER goes from mono syllable to mono paragraph. This is like the rise of the apes in real time.

ken hubert Loc: Missouri

I tried to break it down farther so you could understand it but Dirt was busy.

Texcaster Loc: Queensland

[quote=ken hubert]I tried to break it down farther so you could understand it but Dirt was busy. [/quoteTwo

One monkey with one hour and two keyboards could have written this better.

ken hubert Loc: Missouri

[quote=Texcaster][quote=ken hubert]I tried to break it down farther so you could understand it but Dirt was busy. [/quoteTwo

One monkey with one hour and two keyboards could have written this better.[/quote]

You have two keyboards? I did this with a new computer and word processor not installed yet. Believe it's better then what you could do even WITH a word program. After all I saw what YOU call guitars, lol!

ken hubert Loc: Missouri

HEY PISSNIGGY, How long can you tread water???

Wellhiem Loc: Sunny England.

I suspect he had help from a grown up.

ken hubert Loc: Missouri

More grown up then you Limey. Yes I do hate all Britishers.

Wellhiem Loc: Sunny England.

Whereas people tend to hate you for yourself.

PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas

Little Kenny: You will have a point by point response to this cancerous paragraph you wrote. It is one of the most peculiar enigmas ever printed on UHH. The content represents a level of scholarship that you almost certainly do not produce, and definitely not within the time framework you cited; an hour. The style even more than the content indicates that this is not your work. It is a single monster stanza written by a semi-literate who obviously has never heard of paragraphs.

The basic premise are

1. Peter Nagy is an ignoramus.

2. the Roosevelt Administration had no reason to expect an attack on Pearl Harbor.

Kenny is attempting to defend the court history position that a huge task force with six aircraft carriers the six of football fields snuck across thousands of miles of open water to spring a total surprise on Pearl Harbor. Ergo, the herd of elephants snuck up on us. In fact, Roosevelt did everything he could to provoke the war, repeatedly telling his cabinet that they needed to make sure Japan was maneuvered into making the first strike. The day before the attack, he was certain that he had attained what he wanted; war. Even before that, the vulnerability of Pearl Harbor was well known, but the FDR administration insisted on anchoring the heart of the Pacific Fleet there. He was warned, but did it anyway, firing the highest ranking people who warned him. Killing the messenger. It is an outrageous abdication of responsibility to absolve FDR of Pearl Harbor's abject lack of preparedness, especially on the part of a shrill right wing shill, who wanted Hillary Clinton's blood for a few Americans killed at a foreign embassy. Details to come.

SteveR Loc: Michigan

Nagy compares six aircraft carriers in the Pacific to a herd of elephants which nobody could have missed. Well....who was looking? I think about Midway. Only through the good fortune of intelligence was Midway identified as the Japanese next target. Only through the good fortune of a single scout plane locating the Japanese fleet in the vastness of the Pacific Ocean as it approached Midway was the U.S. Navy able not only to attack but deal the Japanese Navy unsurmountable losses. However, the U.S. Navy had a general idea of where the Japanese Navy was heading. Prior to Pearl Harbor, the U.S. was not at war with intelligence searching Japanese communiques for any clue as to what they were doing. There was no scout plane looking for its Navy. Herd of elephants or not, it was a well hidden herd in the vastness of the Pacific Ocean. I'll not speak to any other point as history is not my forte. I know that there is an argument that FDR wanted to get us into the war, but I personally would have to question that he would commit treason by knowingly leaving our fleet open to attack by an enemy with the corresponding loss of life. I would, however, fault Naval Command for incompetence at doing just that, however unknowingly.

One argument for Roosevelt NOT leaving the entire fleet at Pearl Harbor would be that if the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor, they would have done so whether all of our ships were in port or not. An attack on Pearl Harbor, with some of our ships at sea as would have been prudent, would still have led to war. It would still have been a day that has lived in infamy.

ken hubert Loc: Missouri

And poor dumb PISSNIGGY STILL hasn't figured out that it was the ARMY responsibility to protect the fleet, not the Fleet to protect Hawaii. Something General Short really didn't understand. All Intelligence information pointed to an attack on the Dutch East Indies, Borneo or the Philippines Islands. Admiral Kimmel did everything he could with the information he had. If the Fleet HAD been caught at sea, it would have lost with almost all hands and beyond salvage. Not to mention the loss of excellent officers like Halsey. All of the above would have prolonged the war by at least two years or more.
The Navy made the mistake of preparing for what they THOUGHT the Japanese would do instead of preparing for WHAT they COULD do. Poor PISSNIGGY, he couldn't figure out that basic concept of war either. But then he isn't very bright.

ken hubert Loc: Missouri

PISSNIGGY also thinks the Midway battle was the turning point of the war but both sides concluded that the actual turning point was the Battle for Guadalcanal.

ken hubert Loc: Missouri

I hope you hire someone who knows what they are talking about as you sure dont.

PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas

It is very clear that you, not I, are speaking writing by proxy.