selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

If you want corner-to-corner quality you are going to have to get used to spending a lot of money on prime lenses. Zooms are not going to cut it.

But you can still get a better image on large format with an inexpensive used lens than you will ever get trying to squeeze it onto a 24x36 mm format with a $4000 prime.

bcrawf

Do not be discouraged--close and closer are very important qualities in very many cases. The step by step improvement in digital resolution is an example. Just look back to remind ourself. Other incremental advances include graphics software and our own learning advances as photographers (faster or slower as they may be).

IowaGuy Loc: Iowa

A 35mm equivalent digital (FF digital) is more than sufficient to produce excellent architectural photos. It is the lighting, processing, and an intimate knowledge of what you are doing that are critical elements. Check out the book From Basics to Fine Art: Black and White Photography - Architecture and Beyond by Anna Gospodarou http://www.juliaannagospodarou.com/ and Joel Tjintjelaar. Good samples of Joel's architectural photos can be found here http://www.mymodernmet.com/profiles/blogs/joel-tjintjelaar-photography.

Kuzano

The Kickstarter Travelwide 4X5 that sold out 1500 camera's a couple of years ago and is occasionally on eBay raised $127,000 in 20 days. Took almost two years to manufacture and deliver, but specifics related to this thread are:

Designed with two focal lengths in mind 65mm and 90mm LF lens
Weight less with lens and kit than all the mfrs FF DSLR's.
4X5 film is 13 times the media area than a FF sensor
Sold for a Pledge of $99. I bought two.
Primarily designed for a Schneider 90mm f6.8 LF lens in shutter that sells used for approx. $150.
Results have been good, very satisfying.

AGAIN... walk around with this kit and carry less weight than your common FF DSLR.
AGAIN... shoot an image that when scanned delivers 450 to 600 Megapixels to work with.

Again, regarding cost. A gentlemen here on UHH sold me a Graflex Super Graphic press kit, with 2 lenses, flash and numerous holders, very clean and usable for under $600. Great Kit and having fun with it. Everything came in the box to go Large Format, except film, and I already have a refrigerator full of that.

Film! Folks... Alive and doing well. Selling film camera's on eBay every week, I am!!!

Occasionally, I need a tax loss, so I sell a few digital camera's on eBay. They depreciate soooooooooooooooo fast!

wj cody Loc: springfield illinois

using large format (i have the 5x4 linhof technikardan and the 5x7 ica tropical field cameras) is completely different from using digital, 35mm or medium format. it requires concentration, dedication and skill. none of these seems to be satisfactory for those who want "immediate" results. i am a completely different picture maker when using these cameras. i think differently, compose differently, expose differently and evaluate the subject for many months before ever making an exposure. my nikon df comes in handy as a location instrument, long prior to making a large format exposure.
as for lenses, the 90mm f5.6 angulon, the 120mm wide schneider, the 210mm nikkors or fujis are excellent lens for the working kit. all can be had, with accurate shutters, for less than $500, used, these days. the user must remember that each lens/shutter combination will be different in terms of exposure and must be tested separately.
hope this is of some help for those considering large format.

Architect1776 Loc: In my mind

Have you see work done by the 11-24 for example or the 100-400mm II?
Check it out first before making a blanket statement.

wj cody Loc: springfield illinois

sure they are great for miniature format, but the enlargement, in any size, will never equal that of large format.

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

All of that assumes that you plan to make large prints of detailed landscape, architectural subjects or still life. Small prints or Internet postings will not show the difference.

Adding resolution to the digital sensor without a comparable improvement in lens resolution is only going to make it easier to see the limitations inherent in small format lenses.

A 16x20 print from a 24x36 mm format is nearly a 17x enlargement. From 4x5 (about 3.75x4.75) it's less than 4.5x and from 8x10 it's barely over 2x. It's the enlargement that magnifies the lens aberrations. If you are going to make it 32x40 you can double all of those enlargement factors. Even 6x6 cm (57x57 mm) is more than 3.75x the area of a full frame sensor. There is still a significant advantage for the larger formats.

Even a 16 MP sensor may be gross overkill for portraits, street photography, sunsets, BIF or close-ups where you have a shallow DOF.

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

Yes. They are nice for walking around, street photography, portraits, BIF, routine travel stuff (if you don't enlarge the image too much) and the kind of stuff you see posted here. The images (and the numbers) simply don't hold up under great enlargements and close scrutiny.

When I want to make a large print I start with medium format and if I really want something big I use 4x5. It's a whole different world. Those of us that actually use all of these formats are in a position to opine.

I'm too old to get into 8x10 but some of my friends do it. I have never seen anything sharper than an 8x10 contact print from an 8x10 negative.

jackm1943 Loc: Omaha, Nebraska

Carl, well stated. I agree with you here 99%. The 1%; I'd recommend starting with a 210mm lens rather than a standard 150mm.

Architect1776 Loc: In my mind

Do you have 4x5 Digital?
How about 8x10?
The question was 35mm format and what would be the best to obtain the depth and detail from this format.
I still stand by the camera and lenses mentioned. The 100-400mm new zoom is better than many equal primes.
Of course there are those who live and die by primes and have no clue as to what a good zoom is like.
They are not fuzzy at the edges if you get a good one.

Dan De Lion Loc: Montana

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There’s a reason why you can buy used LF equipment cheaply. Pro’s rarely use it anymore. LF photos due have a certain look that comes from taking pics with a large, heavy, immovable device, on an even heavier tripod. Add to that the time it takes to setup and all spontaneity is gone. Lastly, if the photographer has gone entirely LF mad (which is probably the case), the pics have all the film problems from tray developing large sheets. - Problems such as streaks, areas of relatively under or over development, dust, scratches…

Film based LF photography is a great hobby. But the output from digital cameras (Nikon, Canon, Hassy) is superior. That is the reason that 99.9% of the professional magazine photos are digital.

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James R. Kyle Loc: Saint Louis, Missouri (A Suburb of Ferguson)

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Yes! Very true.

I still make use of my Ansco 8X10 (circa 1941) - and B & J "Orbit" monorail 4X5 - as well at a very portable - Crown Graphic 4X5. These of course are not digital --- What the Large Format Manual cameras can do for you is S L O W you down and Makes you THINK about Everything that you are doing as a photographer. In Fact - making use of these "time-tested" "old" cameras has made a better Digital Photographer out of me. I felt that I was becoming a "part" of the "machine". I do shoot manual about 20% of the time when shooting landscapes - 80% I am on Aperture Priority. And too, when doing Low Light Musical Events (Jazz Gigs) I will even resort to (God Forbid) full automatic.

With the Large format, however, I am totally "on my own". I Must think about where the camera is Pointed to compose the would be Image on the ground glass of the focal plane.. It view of this is Upside Down - and Right is LEFT -- Left is RIGHT. However, I got use to this many MANY years ago. Then I spot meter my Highlights - my Lowlights - And what I may expose to "Zone 5" - (18% Gray). I do the same with the digital (Canon 5D Mark II and 7D) cameras when compiling a difficult lighting situation and resort to creating a H.D.R. (or what I like to call E.D.R. Equivalent Dynamic Range) Image. I Spot Meter as I do with the light in the fame (view-finder) - However = I use Live-View and turn off the autofocus and manually focus on "something" 1/3 to 1/2 into the frame. I Use the 10X Magnification on the camera to achieve this Hyper focal Distance. My camera is set to Aperture Priority - Nothing can be moving in the frame selected. I usually use f-11 to f-22 (or more IF the lens can do that. Sometimes I use a cable release - sometimes I use the "built-in" 2 Second timer. And as the mirror is "locked up" for a live view - Camera ON a tripod - I get a very crisp image in all three exposures.

Sorry to have drifted to digital --- But Large Format is all alive and thriving in the world of photography.

Since film is a bit expensive - (And the fact that I have in stock over 3000 sheets of various B&W Photo-Paper) - I have chosen to make use of the Photo-Paper as a "film-base" loaded into my film-holders. This is VERY LOW ISO.... ISO Eight (8) on the light meter(s) I have found, gives me a rather good Orthochromatic negative. (Of Course this Paper Negative out of the camera MUST be developed by the use of Chemicals in a "wet darkroom". Then after chemical processing - placed on a scanner and brought into Photoshop to be INVERTED and then final digital processing there.

Like I stated earlier.... The use of the Large Format cameras have giving back to me the means to THINK about what I am doing as a photographer - My digital Prints are better than ever in that have SLOWED Down and taken the time to smell the "Fixer"....

Sorry for the long and on going writing - I am Way Too Passionate of a photographer.

((By The Way -- Anyone wishing to know of the photo-paper negative process = Please feel free to Private Message me)).

(Download)

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

No, the question was, "... I wonder how much do I need to $spend$ in 35mm cameras and f1.2 prime lenses etc. to get the sqme effecr as large format?"

And the answer is, as they say in Maine, "You can't get there from here." In other words, you can throw all the money you want into a 35 mm digital format but it is optically and financially impossible to match large format film. Some of us that know that from having used large and small formats.

We also recognize that, although you zoom might be better than some prime lenses, no zoom lens will perform as well at all focal lengths as good prime lenses. A zoom is made for convenience. Its design contains compromises. It's easy to find out by looking at lens tests - the best zooms rank below the best primes.

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

Rather than buy a medium format digital camera or large format film camera, I have another suggestion....

First, get practically any modern DSLR (either full frame or APS-C, doesn't matter).

Then get a very sharp, high quality lens. You do not want an f1.2 prime, for certain. Those are for shallow depth of field effects, exactly the opposite of the deep DoF such as you are most likely seeing in Architectural Digest! I'd recommend using a short telephoto.... perhaps a high resolution lens such as a 60mm macro on a crop sensor camera or a 90 to 100mm on full frame.

Now get Gigapan gear... This includes a motorized tripod head and a computer to control it and the camera, as well as software to assemble multiple images into a single panoramic one.

Gigapan images are made with anywhere from several to literally hundreds of separate shots. They are called that because it's not uncommon for the finished composite images to be 1GB or large in size. The amount of fine detail that can be captured in a finished images is stunning... far more than was ever possible with large format film cameras!



Not true. Check out Gigapan.com and George Lepp's website for some examples that go way, way beyond what was ever possible with LF film.

Plus, doing that you'll still have a standard DSLR to use for a wide variety of opurposes and with your choice of other lenses and accessories.

I've done a lot of work with LF film over the years. Still have a lovely rosewood and chrome Wista 4x5 field camera and Schneider Kreuznach lens.... and a complete darkroom in storage. At the current values, I'll keep them rather than sell them cheap. But to be honest, they haven't seen light of day for some years now.

Not all that long ago a friend shot a lot of still life using a vintage 11x14 camera fitted with a 100 year old Kodak lens, processes the B&W film himself and makes prints from the negs.... His enlarger is horizontal and takes up most of a one-car garage! Very cool images... but I think I could come close to the same today with digital.