innershield Loc: phoenix, az

I have to take karate tournament pictures of my grandson. In a auditorium, no flash. What would you recommend for my settings. 24-70 f2.8 or/and 70-200 f2.8. Thanks. D3s or D5200

PixelStan77 Loc: Vermont/Chicago

Not knowing the light level, or quality of the light, I would start the ISO 3200, F4 Aperture priority

Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

The D3S is far and away the best choice. Which lens depends on how close you will be. I'd take both lenses, just in case.

I guarantee that you want to shoot at ISO 10,000 or 12,800 unless you are in a professional quality gym. Setup to start with by determining proper exposure, and then use manual exposure with AutoISO disabled. What you may need practice at is shooting with a low dynamic range. The exposure has to be nailed, dead on. Lots of highlights in a gym (any reflections or areas close to lights) can be allowed to blow out with no harm. You want dark skin to be bright enough to have texture and light skin to be dark enough to show texture. Past that texture is nice in both black jerseys and white ones. The higher the ISO the lower the dynamic range and the more critical exposure is.

innershield Loc: phoenix, az

Thanks , a lot of great information

GENorkus Loc: Washington Twp, Michigan

Not having that camera, I don't know the iso range it can cover but 10 to 12 thousand would scare the heck out of me!

Why not experiment? Sticking with a less noisy iso and working in manual mode, have a faster speed for the lens/distance needed and then modify the apature and iso to see what you can get away with.

Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

The D3S came out several years ago. Lots of experimenting has been done and reinventing the wheel is unnecessary.

I personally found ISO 10,000 to be quite fine with a D3S when I was shooting that camera. The problem the OP has is a need for the highest possible shutter speeds. Not for every shot but for some. ISO 12,800 is okay too, but there is no leeway at all with exposure.

cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA

As you have a "sports oriented" camera such as the D3s, I would also recommend using a higher ISO to assist in this work. I would not, however, recommend anything higher than ISO 5000-6400 on the D3s, unless it performs much better than my D3 does, but that is more of a personal comment. I would also like to point out that you have 2 fantastic, and fast 2.8 lenses. Please do not fear using them wide open (f2.8) as that is why you paid so much extra for them. Both of those lenses, and your camera, are up to this task. Other than these suggestions, and those of Apaflo above, it would be difficult to be more precise, as the lighting kind, quality and amount is a complete unknown, at least to us. If you have the opportunity, and these photos are important to you, you might consider checking the place out with light meter in hand, or at least arriving a bit early so that you can do that on the day of the event. Great tool, those light meters! Best of luck, and share some photos when done.

Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

A accurate assessment! The D3S is just about 1 fstop better than the D3, so 5000 to 6400 ISO on a D3 is like 10,000 to 12,800 on a D3S.


The advice on lenses is dead on! The light meter and histogram provided by the camera are the best available. Keep in mind that lighting on the gym floor is very even. No need for auto anything.

cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA

You obviously haven't been in some of the gyms I've had to work in! Some were neither even in light level or color temperature!

Also, call me old school, but I don't like much of anything above ISO 12,800 on my D4s either, except if it's for a newspaper!

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

This is why pros do site surveys and take detailed notes of exposure tests and white balance tests, using calibration targets. At the very least, meter off a Delta-1 gray card at subject location under what will be the same lighting conditions as the match. Then perform a custom white balance at that exposure. Record raw or raw plus large, fine JPEGs.

cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA

Yep, couldn't agree more. I usually use a Expodisk, unless I have the time to shoot a grey card in which case I balance that shot and let Lr copy to all the rest. However, I've experienced some gyms where there is multiple lighting types and/or different bulbs in different fixtures. In that case, I can sometimes end up with a shot that has one arm at a different color temp than the other. Another situation I've dealt with is in gyms that have television lights along with their normal lighting. While helpful, the TV lights can also play havoc with white balance. Well, as you know, you just get 'er done, sometimes with a little wine! Photography in the real world can be so much fun!

Shoot Happens

Definitely and only the D3s. You lens choice will be based on a couple of things. Can you get ring side? If so, the 24-70 is most appropriate in that the competitors will be moving around so you will need the wider POV. If you are in the stands, then likely the only choice will be the 70-200 except if you want to take the whole auditorium at once as well as when you take the single shot of your grandson wearing his gold medals. For all of my martial art photos those two lenses are the only ones I have used depending on the types of shots I took. Close ups are best with the 70-200 but flexibility was best with the 24-70. If you can get ringside, I would recommend the 24-70 for your grandson's time in the ring and put on the 70-200 to experiment when others are up to see the types of shots you can get. Also, consider getting close to the ground at times to shoot up for some dramatic angles.

You will likely need to shoot at ISO 3200 and maybe 6400 depending on the lighting. You should try for 1/500 shutter speed and hope you can get f5.6 or better as the competitors will move around a lot so you will need a decent DOF to ensure focus without including all of the people in the stands. Your focusing needs to be on continuous and you always need to be focusing. I like back button focus as I find it easier. Any shutter speed slower than 1/320 will cause a blurry or unfocused image which you can see in my first image. Depending on the belt level of your grandson, younger and more junior belts are much slower than older senior belts like black belts so with the senior belts a speed of 1/500 or faster is likely best. You also need your shutter on CH and keep your finger down shooting in bursts of 3 to 7 shots so you get that perfect image you would have missed on single servo. As you get more experienced you will be better at anticipating what will come next so the number of shots will decrease. The quality of your camera and lenses is perfect for being able to crop in post so don't hesitate to shoot a little wider. Since you will be keeping your eye on your viewfinder the whole match, I found it easier to have both eyes open but it does take a bit of getting used to. I miss my D3s a lot but love the D750 because of its weight in carrying around my gear all day.

My son owns a martial art club so I have taken hundreds of images at each tournament his students are in. I have attached a couple for you to see the quality you should expect. All are taken with the 24-70 2.8. Good luck to you and your grandson.

D3s, f5, 1/100, ISO 6400; Focus a little soft

(Download)

D750, f4, 1/640, ISO 6400

(Download)

D750, f4, 1/500, ISO 6400

(Download)

Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

The D4S is no better than the D3S, and above ISO 12,800 was not recommended.

Yes there are gyms as you describe, but what's the chances one like that is used for a karate tournament?

You can do all the fancy measuring you want and it won't help with color balance that changes at the cyclic rate of 60 Hz power. Shoot RAW and individually adjust each image to be whatever you want in post processing. If the lights are modern high frequency units then even light as well as even color is expected. It's still best to shoot RAW and adjust, but the whole shoot can adjusted with one setting.

cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA

You have some nice photo content shoot happens. IMHO, they could be improved by opening up to max aperture to further blur out the background, which can be very distracting. Just my $ .02!

cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA

Prepare for the worst and hope for the best is what I always say!