Rant of the day: Endless Arguments Suck!
May 13, 2016 10:05:37 #
Every now and then, the same themes present themselves here. It seems like a broken LP record plays the same endless argument, over and over again, with the same points made every time, just witnessed by a new user.
Yesterday, a new user jumped on the forum with questions about "better" gear, "better" supposedly being full frame, according to her co-worker. Well, here's my rant on that, fueled nicely by Zach Arias' hilarious video, linked below, and a bit of coffee:
Ahh, grasshoppers, newbies, and neophytes, you have a few things to learn about:
• GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome),
• The endless sensor envy argument (full frame vs APS-C vs Micro Four/Thirds vs...), and
• The truth that there is a purpose, time, and place for everything.
First, know that GAS is an incurable disease. Once you catch it, it will cause you to make purchase after unnecessary purchase, all in search of product nirvana. It does not matter whether it is cars, cameras, computers, shoes, socks, baseball caps, or 1960s transistor radios, or antique porcelain bathtub feet, you will have to have what you don't have.
NEVER MIND the fact that the purpose of owning something is to go out and use it until it falls apart or you die trying to kill it!
GAS causes you to be BRAND LOYAL (Ford vs. Chevy, Mac vs. PC or iOS vs Android, Canon vs. Nikon, Nike vs. Adidas, etc.). You wind up spending countless hours in forums, dissecting the finer points of this or that release. Meanwhile, life passes by on the street in front of you, and you MISS OUT on the attributes of BOTH the brands you use, AND the brands you don't use! You're too busy arguing about crap to use anything.
Please watch this YouTube video from Zach Arias: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHYidejT3KY
I think he sums up the whole futility of the full frame vs APS-C argument nicely. FUGGEDDABOUDIT. (Gotta love that stuffed squirrel at the left of the frame...)
Yes, full frame cameras play important roles in the photography world. So do all other digital camera formats! But the idea that full frame — or any format — is some sort of digicam nirvana — is pure crap.
Look, I've used every film format from 4x5 inch view cameras down to half-frame 35mm. That's 4x5, 6x17cm, 6x9cm, 6x6cm, 6x4.5cm, 70mm full frame long roll, split 70mm long roll, 46mm long roll (four variations in negative length), 35mm unperforated long roll, full frame and half frame 35mm perforated (size 135). Every one of THEM served a different purpose. Every one of the cameras used to expose those formats had a long list of positive and negative attributes. When I used each of them, it was for the positive attributes.
The same is true of digital cameras. There are medium format digital backs for medium format cameras. They cost tens of thousands of dollars and are used by only a few photographers who live in rarefied air. They are well suited to high-budget advertising photography. Any time you need a super-high resolution point-of-purchase display, they are a good choice.
There are full frame cameras advertised for "pros" (Nikon D5, Canon EOS 1DX Mark II, etc.) and "amateurs" (Nikon D750, Canon 6D, etc.). There are lots of in-between models. There are 50MP Canons and 36MP Nikons and 20 MP Canons and 20MP Nikons, all full frame. The differences are important for the specific user crowds they serve. Add megapixels, and you gain resolution, but you also lose dynamic range, high ISO performance, and high framing rates for sports, wildlife, etc.
In each of the smaller sensor families, from APS-C to Micro Four/Thirds, all the way down to smart phone cameras, there are similar variations on the same theme.
Life is full of little trade-offs. As camera sensors get smaller, the lenses (can) get smaller for the same fields of view they cover. The 12-35mm zoom I use on my LUMIX GH4 is 1/4 the size, bulk, and weight of the full frame 24-70mm lenses it emulates. That's great for travel and fatigue reduction. And the GH4 is great for shooting video until the card fills up or the battery dies, without heat build-up on the sensor. But as cameras get smaller, packing the same number of pixels onto smaller chips changes things. Some things change for the better in some circumstances, while some things change for the worse. Each of us has to find what represents his/her individual balance.
I would encourage every beginner to start humbly, and master what you start with. Learn the principles of photography, and how to manipulate ALL the variables. Once you've recorded your 10,000 first images, you'll have a MUCH better idea of what gear you want, what you need, exactly WHY you need it, and you'll make a more intelligent decision about it.
Don't let anyone tell you you need something, just arbitrarily, "...Because it's the best." Always ask yourself, "Best for what?"
Everything is relative to your own needs, circumstances, motivations, and experiences.
Yesterday, a new user jumped on the forum with questions about "better" gear, "better" supposedly being full frame, according to her co-worker. Well, here's my rant on that, fueled nicely by Zach Arias' hilarious video, linked below, and a bit of coffee:
Ahh, grasshoppers, newbies, and neophytes, you have a few things to learn about:
• GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome),
• The endless sensor envy argument (full frame vs APS-C vs Micro Four/Thirds vs...), and
• The truth that there is a purpose, time, and place for everything.
First, know that GAS is an incurable disease. Once you catch it, it will cause you to make purchase after unnecessary purchase, all in search of product nirvana. It does not matter whether it is cars, cameras, computers, shoes, socks, baseball caps, or 1960s transistor radios, or antique porcelain bathtub feet, you will have to have what you don't have.
NEVER MIND the fact that the purpose of owning something is to go out and use it until it falls apart or you die trying to kill it!
GAS causes you to be BRAND LOYAL (Ford vs. Chevy, Mac vs. PC or iOS vs Android, Canon vs. Nikon, Nike vs. Adidas, etc.). You wind up spending countless hours in forums, dissecting the finer points of this or that release. Meanwhile, life passes by on the street in front of you, and you MISS OUT on the attributes of BOTH the brands you use, AND the brands you don't use! You're too busy arguing about crap to use anything.
Please watch this YouTube video from Zach Arias: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHYidejT3KY
I think he sums up the whole futility of the full frame vs APS-C argument nicely. FUGGEDDABOUDIT. (Gotta love that stuffed squirrel at the left of the frame...)
Yes, full frame cameras play important roles in the photography world. So do all other digital camera formats! But the idea that full frame — or any format — is some sort of digicam nirvana — is pure crap.
Look, I've used every film format from 4x5 inch view cameras down to half-frame 35mm. That's 4x5, 6x17cm, 6x9cm, 6x6cm, 6x4.5cm, 70mm full frame long roll, split 70mm long roll, 46mm long roll (four variations in negative length), 35mm unperforated long roll, full frame and half frame 35mm perforated (size 135). Every one of THEM served a different purpose. Every one of the cameras used to expose those formats had a long list of positive and negative attributes. When I used each of them, it was for the positive attributes.
The same is true of digital cameras. There are medium format digital backs for medium format cameras. They cost tens of thousands of dollars and are used by only a few photographers who live in rarefied air. They are well suited to high-budget advertising photography. Any time you need a super-high resolution point-of-purchase display, they are a good choice.
There are full frame cameras advertised for "pros" (Nikon D5, Canon EOS 1DX Mark II, etc.) and "amateurs" (Nikon D750, Canon 6D, etc.). There are lots of in-between models. There are 50MP Canons and 36MP Nikons and 20 MP Canons and 20MP Nikons, all full frame. The differences are important for the specific user crowds they serve. Add megapixels, and you gain resolution, but you also lose dynamic range, high ISO performance, and high framing rates for sports, wildlife, etc.
In each of the smaller sensor families, from APS-C to Micro Four/Thirds, all the way down to smart phone cameras, there are similar variations on the same theme.
Life is full of little trade-offs. As camera sensors get smaller, the lenses (can) get smaller for the same fields of view they cover. The 12-35mm zoom I use on my LUMIX GH4 is 1/4 the size, bulk, and weight of the full frame 24-70mm lenses it emulates. That's great for travel and fatigue reduction. And the GH4 is great for shooting video until the card fills up or the battery dies, without heat build-up on the sensor. But as cameras get smaller, packing the same number of pixels onto smaller chips changes things. Some things change for the better in some circumstances, while some things change for the worse. Each of us has to find what represents his/her individual balance.
I would encourage every beginner to start humbly, and master what you start with. Learn the principles of photography, and how to manipulate ALL the variables. Once you've recorded your 10,000 first images, you'll have a MUCH better idea of what gear you want, what you need, exactly WHY you need it, and you'll make a more intelligent decision about it.
Don't let anyone tell you you need something, just arbitrarily, "...Because it's the best." Always ask yourself, "Best for what?"
Everything is relative to your own needs, circumstances, motivations, and experiences.
May 13, 2016 10:10:57 #
May 13, 2016 10:12:24 #
usaellie101 wrote:
E N O U G H !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What? You're not falling for my click bait?
May 13, 2016 10:21:49 #
burkphoto wrote:
What? You're not falling for my click bait?
I'm just thinking about how many pictures you didn't take while writing that tome. In fact, being on this forum means you are not out taking pictures or doing something useful.
May 13, 2016 10:23:52 #
May 13, 2016 10:36:56 #
photog11 wrote:
could not agree more.
Sort of my point in writing it... Many of us spend far too much time here.
May 13, 2016 10:39:24 #
burkphoto wrote:
... ... ...
Thanks for the Friday morning touch of humor to go with my coffee
May 13, 2016 10:42:22 #
Shellback wrote:
Thanks for the Friday morning touch of humor to go with my coffee
You're welcome. I saw that video and HAD to have an excuse to share it. Zach could do stand-up comedy at a photography convention.
May 13, 2016 10:46:11 #
Troll post . . . Beware! Do not click on the link to Z Arias unless you want to waste 13 minutes watching a clown. :)
May 13, 2016 10:52:53 #
Maybe the "Search" function should more prominently displayed. Maybe in flashing neon with flickering arrows and a big sign that says, "LOOK HERE BEFORE ASKING A QUESTION".
May 13, 2016 10:59:22 #
I tried to watch that video, got part way through waiting for something other than stick waving to happen. An in depth discussion of the various characteristics of the different sensors, the limitations of the various sensors, etc. Nothing up to the point I gave up about 1/2 way through. Yeah, Bill, the squirrel was a nice touch.
The rant I'd have is the folks who are either misinformed or uninformed as to the principles behind the basics of exposure, composition, and post processing. The folks who will take a hundred exposures to maybe get one that they'd show anyone, birders excepted. All one has to do is check out the web site http://youarenotaphotographer.com/ . These are people making money. They are also making some of us laugh.
--Bob
The rant I'd have is the folks who are either misinformed or uninformed as to the principles behind the basics of exposure, composition, and post processing. The folks who will take a hundred exposures to maybe get one that they'd show anyone, birders excepted. All one has to do is check out the web site http://youarenotaphotographer.com/ . These are people making money. They are also making some of us laugh.
--Bob
May 13, 2016 11:00:16 #
burkphoto wrote:
You're welcome. I saw that video and HAD to have an excuse to share it. Zach could do stand-up comedy at a photography convention.
Loved the way Zach emphasized his points.
How can I remove the spittle from inside my monitor screen?
May 13, 2016 11:03:05 #
May 13, 2016 11:08:24 #
"Every now and then, the same themes present themselves here. It seems like a broken LP record plays the same endless argument, over and over again, with the same points made every time, just witnessed by a new user."
Speaking as someone who has been running a very popular discussion forum (related to a different hobby) for 16 years, I have heard similar "rants" from time to time from my users. Like it or not though, it is just the nature of any discussion forum. Here is my take: While I completely understand your rant, consider a couple of things. First, in your second sentence you point out that these endless points are "just witnessed by a new user." Exactly! There are continually going to be new people joining the forum and bringing up a topic that you may have seen discussed many times before. Nevertheless it puts said topic in front of eyes that may not have seen or discussed that topic, so there is value in that. Secondly, I have seen (at least on my forum) where a topic that has been beaten to death is posted yet again, only to have some new member add something new and interesting to the conversation that might otherwise have been lost. You never know when a new twist to an old topic might be offered by some new member.
If you get right down to it, with the millions of posts on a forum like this, you could probably do a search and find that just about every conceivable topic has been discussed multiple times. If we are only to post topics that have never been discussed before, the activity level would drop precipitously. I do encourage my members to use the search function to see if there is a suitable answer to their question, but I don't preclude members from re-posting a topic, even if it has been discussed before. Members who feel they are no longer interested in a particular topic because they have seen it before have the simple option of ignoring it and going on to the next topic that does interest them.
Speaking as someone who has been running a very popular discussion forum (related to a different hobby) for 16 years, I have heard similar "rants" from time to time from my users. Like it or not though, it is just the nature of any discussion forum. Here is my take: While I completely understand your rant, consider a couple of things. First, in your second sentence you point out that these endless points are "just witnessed by a new user." Exactly! There are continually going to be new people joining the forum and bringing up a topic that you may have seen discussed many times before. Nevertheless it puts said topic in front of eyes that may not have seen or discussed that topic, so there is value in that. Secondly, I have seen (at least on my forum) where a topic that has been beaten to death is posted yet again, only to have some new member add something new and interesting to the conversation that might otherwise have been lost. You never know when a new twist to an old topic might be offered by some new member.
If you get right down to it, with the millions of posts on a forum like this, you could probably do a search and find that just about every conceivable topic has been discussed multiple times. If we are only to post topics that have never been discussed before, the activity level would drop precipitously. I do encourage my members to use the search function to see if there is a suitable answer to their question, but I don't preclude members from re-posting a topic, even if it has been discussed before. Members who feel they are no longer interested in a particular topic because they have seen it before have the simple option of ignoring it and going on to the next topic that does interest them.
May 13, 2016 11:13:38 #
Mac wrote:
Maybe the "Search" function should more prominently displayed. Maybe in flashing neon with flickering arrows and a big sign that says, "LOOK HERE BEFORE ASKING A QUESTION".
Good point.
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.