Speedlight problem
Apr 27, 2016 13:35:51 #
I'm having a situation that, to me, seems improbable, impossible, weird...
To get the speedlight closer to the subject I placed it on another tripod. Camera inside the house, speedlight outside, set to fire from the cameras pop-up flash, or another speedlite on the camera. Tested the set-up inside and it worked just fine.
Set the speedlite outside, trigger flash inside, the speedlite would not fire. Bring the speedlite inside, it fires from the trigger flash. Took the trigger flash outside with the speedlite, speedlite would not fire. Set the speedlite inside, trigger flash outside, the speedlite will not fire.
Set the speedlite just inside the doorway, trigger flash inside, speedlite fires. Set the speedlite one foot back, outside the doorway, it will not fire.
Can anyone offer any possible explanation of what is going on here?
To get the speedlight closer to the subject I placed it on another tripod. Camera inside the house, speedlight outside, set to fire from the cameras pop-up flash, or another speedlite on the camera. Tested the set-up inside and it worked just fine.
Set the speedlite outside, trigger flash inside, the speedlite would not fire. Bring the speedlite inside, it fires from the trigger flash. Took the trigger flash outside with the speedlite, speedlite would not fire. Set the speedlite inside, trigger flash outside, the speedlite will not fire.
Set the speedlite just inside the doorway, trigger flash inside, speedlite fires. Set the speedlite one foot back, outside the doorway, it will not fire.
Can anyone offer any possible explanation of what is going on here?
Apr 27, 2016 14:20:15 #
Just a thought - I think the trigger from on camera flash to off camera speedlight may need to be line of sight or reflected off nearby walls. The on camera flash is weak, so even if in line of sight it may not function over too long a distance.
Apr 27, 2016 15:00:28 #
lsimpkins wrote:
Just a thought - I think the trigger from on camera flash to off camera speedlight may need to be line of sight or reflected off nearby walls. The on camera flash is weak, so even if in line of sight it may not function over too long a distance.
This is almost certainly the problem!
Figure out exactly where the sensor on the speedlight is, and make sure the trigger light is aimed at it. Sometimes it needs a little help from relectors, either on the speedlight or the trigger light or both. Taping a little bit of white paper or aluminium foil in just the right place can help greatly. Note that when inside that is exactly what the walls and ceiling do, but outside whatever reflective surfaces there are might be very far away.
Apr 27, 2016 15:24:38 #
lsimpkins wrote:
Just a thought - I think the trigger from on camera flash to off camera speedlight may need to be line of sight or reflected off nearby walls. The on camera flash is weak, so even if in line of sight it may not function over too long a distance.
Distance is not the issue, at the last part of the testing the trigger was within 6 ft. All were line of sight from trigger to receptor. Test was with both on-camera flash and another speedlite.
Apr 27, 2016 15:31:12 #
Apaflo wrote:
This is almost certainly the problem!
Figure out exactly where the sensor on the speedlight is, and make sure the trigger light is aimed at it. Sometimes it needs a little help from relectors, either on the speedlight or the trigger light or both. Taping a little bit of white paper or aluminium foil in just the right place can help greatly. Note that when inside that is exactly what the walls and ceiling do, but outside whatever reflective surfaces there are might be very far away.
Figure out exactly where the sensor on the speedlight is, and make sure the trigger light is aimed at it. Sometimes it needs a little help from relectors, either on the speedlight or the trigger light or both. Taping a little bit of white paper or aluminium foil in just the right place can help greatly. Note that when inside that is exactly what the walls and ceiling do, but outside whatever reflective surfaces there are might be very far away.
Receptor is 1-1/2" x 1-1/4". Trigger speedlite will throw a shadow from 20 feet. Trigger 6 to 10 feet from receptor. Only difference is if one or the other, or both is/are outside the door, even by 1 foot either way.
Apr 27, 2016 15:32:24 #
Apr 27, 2016 15:33:30 #
Nikon_DonB wrote:
Are you shooting through glass? Possible reflection issues.
Slider door open.
Apr 27, 2016 16:03:50 #
neilds37 wrote:
I'm having a situation that, to me, seems improbab... (show quote)
So what is the trigger flash signal being reflected by? Which flash models / trigger are you using?
Assuming this is an optical trigger, not radio, then how do you interpret direct line of site, you to the flash or flash sensor to triggering device?
Is this Nikon or Canon flash gear?
Apr 27, 2016 16:31:23 #
Peterff wrote:
So what is the trigger flash signal being reflected by? Which flash models / trigger are you using?
There is no reflection. Not sure what you mean by "flash models".
Peterff wrote:
Assuming this is an optical trigger, not radio, then how do you interpret direct line of site, you to the flash or flash sensor to triggering device?
Final testing, I'm standing there with a second speedlite in my hand pointing at the receptor, and push the "test" button.
Peterff wrote:
Is this Nikon or Canon flash gear?
Neither. What possible difference could that make? One unit is a Neewer TT560, the other unit is a Altura AP-FLS-UNV1.
Apr 27, 2016 17:25:23 #
neilds37 wrote:
Neither. What possible difference could that make? One unit is a Neewer TT560, the other unit is a Altura AP-FLS-UNV1.
It could be important.
Nikon and the non-radio frequency Canon models have a mode that relies on the infrared spectrum in the flash to trigger/control remotes.
(The built-in sensors of your flash & other may also actually use the infrared end to trigger as well -most are covered by a dark red window... Anyone know for sure?)
Apr 27, 2016 17:39:11 #
GoofyNewfie wrote:
It could be important.
Nikon and the non-RF Canon models rely on the infrared spectrum in the flash to trigger/control remotes.
Nikon and the non-RF Canon models rely on the infrared spectrum in the flash to trigger/control remotes.
OK, I had no idea. Anyway, here is an example I just shot. First shot, front leg of tripod outside the house. Second shot front leg inside the house, bringing the speedlite inside by a few inches.
Apr 27, 2016 20:07:17 #
neilds37 wrote:
There is no reflection. Not sure what you mean by ... (show quote)
By flash models I mean specific product identification, camera and flash units, make and model designation, for example in the Canon world, 580 EX II.
By reflection, once again in the Canon optical world, then sensors need to receive optical preflash signals. If the signal source is in direct line of sight to the receiver (they need to be facing each other or receive a reflected signal) then it works. If the transmitter is behind or out of direct sensor sight of the remote flash then the transmission signal needs to be reflected from a surface to complete the communication with the remote flash. No reflection, no communication, no flash.
Hope that helps, if not I may not be understanding your question.
Apr 27, 2016 20:52:09 #
Peterff wrote:
By flash models I mean specific product identifica... (show quote)
" One unit is a Neewer TT560, (trigger) the other unit is a Altura AP-FLS-UNV1. (receptor)"
"I'm standing there with a second speedlite in my hand pointing at the receptor, and push the "test" button."
Apr 27, 2016 21:23:42 #
The answer...ambient light. The sun has now left the entire viewing area, leaving all in shadow. The "slave" now responds to the "master". Thank you all who responded, and took the time to help
Cheers, Neil
Cheers, Neil
Apr 27, 2016 23:05:25 #
neilds37 wrote:
The answer...ambient light. The sun has now left the entire viewing area, leaving all in shadow. The "slave" now responds to the "master". Thank you all who responded, and took the time to help
Cheers, Neil
Cheers, Neil
I've experienced similar things in the past with IR sensors. Was giving a talk once with bright sunlight streaming in through windows onto a remote control console for audio/visual devices in the room. Things just started happening like curtains opening and closing and an overhead projector dropping down from the ceiling. It felt like the room was haunted!
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