St3v3M Loc: 35,000 feet

For Your Consideration is eight months old and with recent events I thought it time for a Section Update.

In 250 days, 6000 hours, 360,000 minutes, or 21,600,000 seconds we accomplished a lot!
- The Monthly Masters Critiques
- Tutorials
- Discussions
- Haigas & Haikus
- Photo Stories
- the infamous Red Umbrellas
- A Sense of Place: Let's Study and Share!
- The Gallery Project
- My Image - Your Look
- Mentor Me
- and so much more!

There's a heart to this place, a tangible feel to the dedication and energy we bring to it, but like all things there's room for more.
- The FYC Book Club will be starting soon
- Directed Challenges will be presented
- along with a few other evolving ideas

This is our section though, and as members with a vested interest it would be nice to know what you see for the future.
- Do you like the site as is? And if so why?
- Do you want changes? And if so what?
- Are there topics or activities you want to discuss? Details please!
- And do you have a talent you want to share? More details please!

This is your section, but we only know what you want if you let your voice be heard. S-

TheeGambler Loc: The green pastures of Northeast Texas

I really didn't realize that "For Your Consideration" involved all this. I will have to use it and participate in it more. Thank you for the information. As far as the site, I like the format. Have been on quite a few other forums and I have found that, for me, this is the easiest format to use. And, I must say, there are a lot of nice people that go along with it.. :-)

R.G. Loc: Scotland

I think it's probably a good idea to introduce new ideas gradually. Too much new stuff all at the same time could be counter-productive.

Uuglypher Loc: South Dakota (East River)

Steve,
During the time our no-longer-quite-so-new Section has been growing and evolving I have often recalled one of my favorite TV shows from the early 1950s "Omnibus" as well as one of my favorite public radio shows, "All things Considered". FYC (our "Omnibus") has, to my mind, comfortably slid into that admirably and broadly accepting " rut" out of which I hope it does not get pulled!

I have the impression that almost all of the varied directions that our discussions, projects, and other activities have pursued have devolved from some aspect of, or concern about one or another image or group of images someone has posted... altogether meet and proper, eh? It also strikes me that were we to try to "spitball" or "brain-storm" the process the rate of success in hitting on a "winner" of a project or a "new direction" would be lower if it didn't evolve as our others have...from discussions about some aspect of one or more posted images. If, however, a promising thought has been lurking in the mind's backwaters, it may just take a posted image to jog it loose... so I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't brainstorm...maybe just keep it on the "down low" until it gels and takes form in the context of an appropriate image.
We have a free-form forum on the general theme of art in general and photography in particular, and I see no reason to try to define it more closely!

The single greatest problem in preserving the spirit and intent of FYC that I perceive is the apparent need, on the part of a very few, to exercise a far greater level of intolerance for attitudes toward art and creativity that differ from their own. If one cannot "live and let live" without the need to sarcastically and acerbically and unfeelingly derogate the attitudes and approaches of others, then one simply needs to leave...or, if intransigent and unremediable, be expelled from participation in FYC. Seeds of dissent elsewhere were the reasons that FYC has attracted new participants. There is no room for those who take pleasure in egregious bullying of others over disagreements over matters of art.m We should have zero tolerance for intolerance of the reasonably and respectfully stated opinions of others.
FYC is intended as a welcoming environment for discussion of an amazingly wide variety of topics dealing with art in general and photography in particular. Participants are urged to post examples of their own photography for discussion and to participate, as they feel comfortable, in discussion and criticism of images posted by others. It really should not be difficult to maintain that spirit and intent.

Dave

Billyspad Loc: The Philippines

So Dave Mr A posts a shot of nothing other than a crop from a larger shot well drenched in Topaz and with nothing other than a few repeating patterns going for it.
Mr B points out there really is nothing in the shot to grab interest and if you want repeating patterns they can often be found in bathroom tiles or in stuff like tweed jackets which have the additional interest of texture. However the photo itself is technically sound so scores top marks there composition does not really enter into because of subject matter.
Mr A posted for opinion. Mr B gave an opinion which in his mind is honest. No insult to the PO or any sign of "bullying". Mr B has a reasonable body of work posted on the Hog to prove his views and opinion are valid. Mr B covered Impact Composition and Technique.
So Dave would you find that critique/opinion/view acceptable?
Its honest well thought through it just differs from some who feel a swirly pattern makes a photograph or an image.

Uuglypher Loc: South Dakota (East River)

B's response, if left at that, would be no problem, however the B I have in mind takes it as a personal affront when several engage in further discussion of Mr A' image ,and, in fact , offer variations on that theme of their own to post. The objectionable B, whose opinion has already been stated, then repeatedly inserts himself in the on-going discussion among those who found A's image to be of interest, and, in so doing, becomes a disruptive influence whose self-serving, opinionated objections to the style he dislikes become personally directed and offensive. At that point, B deserves exclusion not just from the discussion at hand, but from the forum.

Understand, billy?

And I'll be curious if there is a scintilla of support ...or more....for my position, or, on the other hand, a significant body of opinion to the contrary.

Dave

Frank2013 Loc: San Antonio, TX. & Milwaukee, WI.

I would think Mr. B would consider the constant need to defend a position from not just one or two regular posters but many would be in and of itself reason enough for personal reflection.

Billyspad Loc: The Philippines

So as I understand it Mr B's feelings on the image would be quite acceptable?
Im pretty sure Mr B would not provide edited additions unless the OP actually requested or suggested edits were in order.
Now our Mr B once suggested someone in a portrait looked as if he had a broom stuck up their butt! This was indeed out of order and Mr B spoken was to by admin.
So a simple request Dave please post a link here to an image where he - then repeatedly inserts himself in the on-going discussion among those who found A's image to be of interest, and, in so doing, becomes a disruptive influence whose self-serving, opinionated objections to the style he dislikes become personally directed and offensive.
Should not be hard you seem to feel our Mr B does it continually?
Mr B, whilst not one to be desperately interested in the opinions of those outside of a few for whom he has respect, has been very careful not to tread over the line carefully scribed in the sand by admin. He may get up to that line but does not cross it. Not once since the "broom handle" has admin stepped in and displayed displeasure at any comment Mr B has made on an Image thread. And Im pretty sure admin makes a point of following Mr B rather more closely than others.

pfrancke Loc: cold Maine

And perhaps Mr B could keep himself out of trouble simply by holding negative comments in check and avoid them entirely. Mr B has great talent and many positive things to contribute. Why on earth would Mr. B wish to undermine that?

pfrancke Loc: cold Maine

Such a simple problem to fix then. Mr B simply has to be more worried about showing respect than about actually having respect.

Or avoid communication entirely with those that he does not respect.

Billyspad Loc: The Philippines

In the context of this conversation which is the one I assume your joining Frank then Mr B constantly evaluates his feelings towards repeating pattern images and the like. In fact one was posted a few weeks back of an apartment block in Brisbane and he stated quite clearly it worked and it was OK. Mr B is still I feel of the opinion that most do not work other than to fit the criteria of some dreampt up idea that its art.
Im sure you would agree in a free and open forum Mr B has the right to express this view as laid out fully in a reply to Uuglypher.
If you think deeply have concerns and voice these concerns on matters beyond images because you have carefully analysed what is being suggested and others may indeed have not thought through the implications of a situation and if one is equipped to deliver what is being discussed one does tend to find a few arguments thrown at one. The need or indeed sensibility of composing a reply is a different matter and would be a good subject for debate sometime.
I have seen the membership referred to as a herd and that's good as there is safety in numbers. You also need those on point who can see the herd but also take note of what else is going on. It can be a lonely dangerous job and can result in being misunderstood by many in the herd. One can only be guided by what you feel is right.

Billyspad Loc: The Philippines

What you see as negative may be positive in that its designed to help.
Saying to a screaming shouting supporter at a Donald Trump rally " Are you crazy? That guy with the strange haircut up there will never make a good President whilst ever he has a hole in his butt"
Is that negative positive or the plain truth as Mr B see's it? And if he feels strongly that what he is saying is true is he wrong in expressing an opinion and in this case trying to make our Trumpite reconsider.
Same as here if Mr B feels a image is bad or an idea has not been properly considered is it negative to give an opinion?
If you come back with "it the way you give that opinion" i will preempt you and will ask for an example of negativity for negativity's sake NOT negativity because Mr B seriously considered the suggestion flawed.

Ya know I think it was mcveed who suggested he did not trust those who spoke in the third person lol. Careful my friend you will blow your trust.

Keep safe

Billy

Uuglypher Loc: South Dakota (East River)

The choice of B's objection to an image was yours, not mine. My choice of a more common example of B's egregious unpleasantness and derogation of the opinions of others would relate to opinions regarding use of, for example, leading lines in composition, which practice B repeatedly has criticized with sarcasm, and the proponents of which he has repeatedly characterized with variety of maledictive, patronizing, and belittling terms. I'm surprised you need to ask for examples of his offenses, intimately familiar as you are with his objectionable proclivities. The same applies to opinions of others on other aspects of art and creativity with which and with whom he viscerally disagrees in most disagreeable manners.
I assume no responsibility to list for you B's numerous offenses. If you wish, or actually need... I'll give you his online name by PM, and you can scan the archives of his posting where you'll find many examples of his disruptive behaviors that serve no positive function in this Section. It seems best to keep names out of such a public discussion, don't you think, Billy?

Dave

Billyspad Loc: The Philippines

Mr B pays attention every day to make sure he SHOWS respect whether its false or not. That's why admin has not had to step in cos Mr B always shows respect irrespective of his feeling towards that person.

Oh please watch the threads decide for yourself and do not follow the herd. Mr B reserves the right to comment on all threads as he feels all members should. It is blatant disrespect to sign in comment on some and not others.
When Mr B comments on your images there will be an easy to pick up subliminal message that he does actually have respect for you as a human being. It may be he mentions your name calls you fella or friend or even a keep safe message. Mr B may inquire after you health. Come on it aint rocket science to spot it.
That is all missing from those for whom he has no respect and Mr B just comments.

pfrancke Loc: cold Maine

no, no. You did not comment on my "tooth of the tiger". And it left me feeling exactly as you say.

You raise an interesting point about commenting, I seldom comment unless I feel I have something different to contribute. Commenting on all will become more difficult as the number of threads increase.