Rongnongno Loc: FL

I see a flaw in all this...

'A picture is worth a thousand words'... I do not believe it was intended to be photo specific.

When we need to show the relationship between objects a photograph or a drawing gives an idea as to where is what with proportions, something words cannot describe easily.

The most blatant example being architectural drawings or plans that are made in order to show and give precise instructions to folks in the building industry. One thousand words (and more) are efficiently being replaced by a comprehensive design, on paper.

Giving directions to your home is also straight forward if you know how to draw a map and will be with the person when he/she comes to your place and will not need to remember your verbal instructions.

The thousand word then is not about a 'story'. An unadulterated capture is basically saying: 'I saw that'. 'That' is not a story. A story can be created using a series of photographs that follow an event like in 'time-lapse'.

A 'story' is something else as the 'viewing', 'reading' and 'interpretation' if left to the individual 'gate-keeping'.

In the individual interpretation side, per blackest link, if you read the discussion that followed the article you can see the variation between the readers as to the perceived intent of the article. Cat lovers accuse the writer of demonizing cats, something I fail to see. One gives and example on how his cats are not into killing when they are outside because they are 'in a pen'. This shows the person is out of step with what is being said. Everyone seems to ignore the photograph used an illustration, perhaps because it says nothing?

anotherview Loc: California

Nope. My central argument: "A photograph tells not a single story in the conventional sense. Instead, a photograph speaks to a viewer in a visual voice using visual means."

Thus a photograph communicates directly to a viewer minus any words. A viewer who does not read and write can understand a photograph.

You write: "photographs that engage the viewer are building a story, it may be fiction rather than fact but there is something there."

Yes, but this engagement happens by perception, part of the visual sense using no words; in turn, any so-called story results from the consciousness of the viewer drawing more from the visual presentation and putting this more into words. A photograph may prompt wordplay on the part of a viewer.

At the same time, a photograph, because a visual product, may please the eye of a viewer without any involvement of words.

Consider this situation as illustrative: You find yourself alone in a national park with no others within sight or earshot, only you and the natural surroundings. Silently, all your senses come into play. You experience the moments without saying or writing anything, although you may try to form descriptive or conceptual thoughts about this situation. Later, you may try to put your sensed experience down in writing, as a story. You will of course realize that your story represents a fraction of the experience you had. Only the direct experience fully informs the individual by engaging every sense. The experience itself, however, tells no story using words. You as the visitor will produce the words.

A photograph appeals to only one sense, that of seeing which then starts the process of perception minus any words because a wordless mechanism. This mechanical, controlling process of seeing happens as a biologic function. It involves no words.

The presentation of a photograph reaches a viewer by this biology as later conditioned by perception which engages and informs consciousness where words may come into play. Note that this conditioning actually determines how our perception shapes itself.

Further, this conditioning explains why each viewer will take away his own appreciation of a viewed photograph. This appreciation of a photograph can very from a wordless pleasing of the visual sense to a verbose, intellectualized discussion.

anotherview Loc: California

Ditto.

Fred Harwood Loc: Sheffield, Mass.

As an aging editor, I moderate a local writing forum. The effect upon student writers of including a photograph within their story brings many a smile. One writer has photos from a father in a war zone. I have been showing the writer how to write to the photo, its time and place and person.
Photos bring much to stories.

Rongnongno Loc: FL

As an illustration. By themselves, do they stand?

anotherview Loc: California

This definition may help clear the air here. I use the word “story” in this sense:

“a narrative, either true or fictitious, in prose or verse, designed to interest, amuse, or instruct the hearer or reader; tale.” [found at: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/story]

Notice the necessity of words in this definition to communicate the narrative.

A photograph functions as a visual medium of human expression free of words in its presentation to human sight and the associated perception of the given photograph.

After this perception, human consciousness may add words to the visual experience. This wordplay happens because humans try to gain meaning from their experience.

I notice here a blurring of the visual sense and later wordplay. The first action, however, prompts the second and does so minus any words.

Fred Harwood Loc: Sheffield, Mass.

One could write: Bill threw his ball. Or: Billie threw his softball to his dog, Spot, in the backyard. The second sentence conveys much more than the first. Adding a photo of the dog with the ball in its mouth running back to Billie conveys even more; the photo and the words complement each other.

As for a standalone photo, to a geologist, a photo of St. Mary's Lake from near the east entrance to Glacier NP tells a story spanning many thousands of years, from the block faulting to the glacial gouging of the valley and lakebed. To some, such a photo might be just an illustration. To others, much more.

anotherview Loc: California

Yes, the visual and the written expressions can go together for a more effective presentation.

jaymatt Loc: Alexandria, Indiana

not your usual bird photo

There's the key.

Bazbo Loc: Lisboa, Portugal

Is it not the photograph that provokes the imagination, thus the story?

Photographs are more than inanimate ink on paper or pixels on a screen.

My view anyway. Believe what you want.

Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.

In the interests of definition and clarity, I believe it is important to define the boundaries of both pictures and stories in the context of this discussion.

For example, a picture can literally be a two dimensional image, photograph, painting, etc. which would exclude 3D sculpture etc., although cubist works could be problematic..., on the other hand does it include the concept of the idiom " I get the picture" which is less literal and more conceptual?...

A story could be defined as limited to written or spoken text only, even with supporting illustrations, as in the quote from Alice - "what is the use of a book without pictures or conversations?"

What happens with the context of a mime? Do mimes not tell stories without words? Where does it leave "Toy Story" or "West Side Story"? Are they misnomers?

If we set the boundaries of the definitions of 'a picture' and 'a story' we may be able to make better progress....

Darkroom317 Loc: Mishawaka, IN

Photographs can and often do have a self contained narrative. However, it is more common than an individual photograph is only a piece of a larger narrative. This is where photo essays and series come in.

Fred Harwood Loc: Sheffield, Mass.

That was going to be my next comment. From the parlor slideshow to invited HDTV presentations, many single photos become somewhat like chapters in a good book, and transport the viewers into the theme.

Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.

I do think that a single picture / photograph can capture the essence of a story, and as such communicates that there is a story to be told.

What that story is, and whose stories are involved is part of a larger discussion.

For example, Ken Burns managed to create a superb genre with his approach to American history with his format for the Civil War. His bother's production on Ansel Adams following a similar format is an enjoyable and informative essay. These are all multi-media things that tell multiple stories.

"One attitude makes you larger,
Another makes you small,
But the ones that are too restricted
Do nothing worthwhile at all!"

With apologies to Grace Slick / Jefferson Airplane

blackest Loc: Ireland

This is a very hard subject to communicate about. Words are subject to interpretation, we generally have an approximate shared understanding of meaning then there is nuance, which is often lost in translation between what the writer intends to say and what the reader takes in.

Language constricts us, most of our thought is through a system of language of words and their meanings and relationships. Languages do not all work the same way either. French is not just English with different words. I read somewhere that the japanese have about 6 different words meaning you but the difference is that the choice of which to use depends on rank and relationship between the speakers. Words language and culture can bind the way we think.

Online there is a tendency to use emoticons to try to mitigate the misunderstandings that occur when we use words. How often can we write one thing and have it reinterpreted in a way that is a million miles away from our intended meaning and context.

Words are unreliable, very hard to work with (just look at law, what is written on the statute books and the reinterpretation in the courtrooms).

“a narrative, either true or fictitious, in prose or verse, designed to interest, amuse, or instruct the hearer or reader; tale.” (found at: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/story)

Notice the necessity of words in this definition to communicate the narrative.

The necessity, I believe, is because we often do not have any better way to express ourselves, especially at a distance. We do not just use words to communicate. For example your wife has had a bad day do you compose an essay expressing your sympathy with her stressful day or perhaps give her a big hug and a kiss which expresses more than several pages of prose and on several layers. There is often a mood or an atmosphere, good or bad that can exist in many situations. You can pick up on tension or happiness or ...

With this in mind i reject the limitation of words as the only means to tell a story. We don't need words for a story to exist. Words are a serial form of communication 1 bit follows the next.

Between an image and a viewer or even two people there can be parallel communication several concurrent thought processes. Even with words once they are inside your head we break them up into concepts and relationships.

An image may be visual but our reception of it may not be. Some of it may be scent or tastes, like fresh baked bread or hot coffee. The heat of a freshly baked baguette perhaps. A visual stimulus but a range of senses stimulated. A photograph of a long dead relative may bring to mind times spent together and the relationship you had.

A successful photograph, will bring forth a narrative for the viewer, sometimes what stimulates one person can leave another cold and disinterested. That is part of life experience maybe there is nothing in your life that resonates with an image. It is rather more difficult to voice that narrative to a second person. Sometimes they could be side by side and still not be sharing the same narrative.

Birds in flight, what is that all about? For me it seems almost like hunting or train spotting. Often all an image says is something like, this is a oozlum bird i located and shot. Or an engine I spotted and crossed off its number. To the photographer and others with similar interests i'm sure it means a lot more.

So for me at least I believe in the storytelling aspect of photographs, some are personal, some have a wider audience that can connect with that narrative. Some, well a lot of photographs fail badly (most of mine do if I am honest). Like my words they sometimes fail to communicate, even to me when I review my efforts.

There is a place for these non storytelling images too, passports , driving licenses and bus passes spring to mind :) I think one area that is worth looking at for inspiration are movies. Many are abridged versions of books, people are more accepting of spending days or weeks with a book. With a film the shots tend to have more purpose they are there to drive the narrative.

With a film you can look at it from the director's viewpoint if you care to spoil a good story. You can ask yourself what is he trying to show me, why and how does he achieve this. With these examples I think you can go out and shoot with the intention of telling a story.

One things certain if there is a story in your images i will look forward to the next one, if there isn't I am probably being polite.

I do think a story is needed and if there isn't one at best it's a practice/ test shot. It may be the narrative has an audience of 1 it is up to the individual photographer to decide if he wants a wider audience.