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LR vs PS Bridge Organizing
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Dec 6, 2015 10:31:20   #
Dngallagher Loc: Wilmington De.
 
russelray wrote:
I cannot, because I don't know what might be important to you. For me, Lightroom kept losing track of folders and pictures, a common problem. Just do a search here on UHH for things like "missing folders in Lightroom," "missing pictures in Lightroom," etc. I got tired of folders and pictures going missing so I looked at alternatives. That's when I discovered the power of Bridge.


If Lightroom kept losing track of where things were, it was most likely because of moving, deleting, or renaming things outside of Lightroom, and if that was the case, it was a quick and easy mouse click in Lightroom to find them again. Of course problems can also be caused by external editors and not "round tripping" properly.

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Dec 6, 2015 12:52:15   #
russelray Loc: La Mesa CA
 
Dngallagher wrote:
If Lightroom kept losing track of where things were, it was most likely because of moving, deleting, or renaming things outside of Lightroom, and if that was the case, it was a quick and easy mouse click in Lightroom to find them again. Of course problems can also be caused by external editors and not "round tripping" properly.

Not necessarily a "quick and easy mouse click." And when one uses many programs other than Lightroom (PSP, Photo-Paint, PSE, Gimp, etc.) in order to make sure that one can help one's Clients when necessary, yes, those other programs don't recognize Lightroom's capabilities, and Lightroom doesn't recognize them. Bridge, on the other hand, has absolutely no problem keeping track of things down outside of Adobe products.

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Dec 6, 2015 13:03:17   #
Dngallagher Loc: Wilmington De.
 
russelray wrote:
Not necessarily a "quick and easy mouse click." And when one uses many programs other than Lightroom (PSP, Photo-Paint, PSE, Gimp, etc.) in order to make sure that one can help one's Clients when necessary, yes, those other programs don't recognize Lightroom's capabilities, and Lightroom doesn't recognize them. Bridge, on the other hand, has absolutely no problem keeping track of things down outside of Adobe products.


By using other tools as you say, the problems can be easily made for Lightroom. In most cases, a re-sync of a folder (remember, the navigation screen on the left in Lightroom is NOT a file folder browse view) would resolve issues of missing files, unless of course you (your tools) moved them and you did not know where it moved them. Scary thought that.

It was not Lightroom that lost the files, but the use of tools outside of Lightroom that caused the issue.

I understand that, me, I always begin and end editing within Lightroom since it is THE database of my images, Lightroom has the capability to call any program as an external editor or plug in pretty much, so other tools can be easily added to extend Lightroom and I do that often calling GIMP myself, not a problem round tripping from Lightroom with no losses of files.

That being said, I can see why you might not like Lightroom based on your workflow, but that is your choice, not the fault of the product. Nothing wrong with your method of workflow if it gets done what you want done.

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Dec 6, 2015 13:05:28   #
russelray Loc: La Mesa CA
 
Dngallagher wrote:
By using other tools as you say, the problems can be easily made for Lightroom. In most cases, a re-sync of a folder (remember, the navigation screen on the left in Lightroom is NOT a file folder browse view) would resolve issues of missing files, unless of course you (your tools) moved them and you did not know where it moved them. Scary thought that.

It was not Lightroom that lost the files, but the use of tools outside of Lightroom that caused the issue.

I understand that, me, I always begin and end editing within Lightroom since it is THE database of my images, Lightroom has the capability to call any program as an external editor or plug in pretty much, so other tools can be easily added to extend Lightroom and I do that often calling GIMP myself, not a problem round tripping from Lightroom with no losses of files.

That being said, I can see why you might not like Lightroom based on your workflow, but that is your choice, not the fault of the product. Nothing wrong with your method of workflow if it gets done what you want done.
By using other tools as you say, the problems can ... (show quote)

Which is why I use Bridge. Bridge has no problem with my work flow. Lightroom does. Lightroom is great if all one ever does is mess with a few pictures in Lightroom. If one does much more significant work, perhaps even multiple renditions of the same picture which then go into different file folders for different Clients, and uses different programs, too, yeah, Lightroom has a lot of problems.
I'm a big Lightroom fan for the average Joe. I, however, am much more than an average Joe so I need much more than what Lightroom can offer, or do.

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Dec 6, 2015 13:20:41   #
Dngallagher Loc: Wilmington De.
 
russelray wrote:
Which is why I use Bridge. Bridge has no problem with my work flow. Lightroom does. Lightroom is great if all one ever does is mess with a few pictures in Lightroom. If one does much more significant work, perhaps even multiple renditions of the same picture which then go into different file folders for different Clients, and uses different programs, too, yeah, Lightroom has a lot of problems.
I'm a big Lightroom fan for the average Joe. I, however, am much more than an average Joe so I need much more than what Lightroom can offer, or do.
Which is why I use Bridge. Bridge has no problem w... (show quote)


I suspect that your comments are way off if you think most Lightroom users are an average Joe who only messes with a few photos... :)

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Dec 6, 2015 14:26:26   #
russelray Loc: La Mesa CA
 
Dngallagher wrote:
I suspect that your comments are way off if you think most Lightroom users are an average Joe who only messes with a few photos... :)

LOL
If one just wants a photograph cataloging database, Lightroom works very well. If one needs a cataloging database library that understands much more than just photographs, such as videos, Corel Draw files, InDesign files, Illustrator files, Word files, Excel files, etc., etc., etc., ad nauseum, infinitum, Bridge is the way to go. It is so much more than just a photograph cataloging database library.

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Dec 6, 2015 17:41:41   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
russelray wrote:
... It is so much more than just a photograph cataloging database library.


So you're using Bridge to catalog all your files? Not just images?

Are you talking about other Adobe programs (e.g. Dreamweaver, Illustrator, Acrobat, etc.) or are you including non-Adobe software also (e.g. word processing, email, compilers, etc.)?

I can see why you might want to include everything in your computer if you use the non-image processing programs a significant part of the time. It would help finding things other than images.

But the Adobe Bridge web page says "Bridge CC gives you centralized access to all the media assets you need for your creative projects." It seems to be concentrating on media assets, not all the other stuff. If it's a file browser based system it should be able to see everything even non-image stuff. I'm not sure why Adobe doesn't say that on their page.

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Dec 6, 2015 17:46:16   #
marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL
 
russelray wrote:
Which is why I use Bridge. Bridge has no problem with my work flow. Lightroom does. Lightroom is great if all one ever does is mess with a few pictures in Lightroom. If one does much more significant work, perhaps even multiple renditions of the same picture which then go into different file folders for different Clients, and uses different programs, too, yeah, Lightroom has a lot of problems.
I'm a big Lightroom fan for the average Joe. I, however, am much more than an average Joe so I need much more than what Lightroom can offer, or do.
Which is why I use Bridge. Bridge has no problem w... (show quote)


This has been my point all along. Bridge doesn't ever get in my way. I don't have to learn it. One has to learn the LR librarian. Bridge just works as a tool FOR me and doesn't take control. I don't have to synronize anything or rename something it named for me. Lightroom set up folders on my hard drive to put other folders in completely without my permission. I didn't want that. They're still there because I never bothered to take them out but they cause me two to three more clicks every time I use Bridge to go into a folder I want. I don't want to learn what Lightroom wants to do to me so I can compromise to it. I want Bridge to work with MY workflow the way I do it and Lightroom does not. Bridge learns from you. LR librarian makes you learn from it.

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Dec 6, 2015 18:43:32   #
marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
So you're using Bridge to catalog all your files? Not just images?

Are you talking about other Adobe programs (e.g. Dreamweaver, Illustrator, Acrobat, etc.) or are you including non-Adobe software also (e.g. word processing, email, compilers, etc.)?

I can see why you might want to include everything in your computer if you use the non-image processing programs a significant part of the time. It would help finding things other than images.

But the Adobe Bridge web page says "Bridge CC gives you centralized access to all the media assets you need for your creative projects." It seems to be concentrating on media assets, not all the other stuff. If it's a file browser based system it should be able to see everything even non-image stuff. I'm not sure why Adobe doesn't say that on their page.
So you're using Bridge to catalog all your files? ... (show quote)


What's your point? If Adobe is involved in photography and graphics, doesn't have a word processor, database, or spreadsheet program in their lineup, why would they even mention the output of programs of that type? Let Adobe buy software products for those functions and they'd start to promote that Bridge can handle it. Otherwise they have no real reason financially to promote such abilities which could confuse the issue for newbies.

Yes, it's completely possible to have Bridge pop up as your first app upon booting up and then guide yourself into virtually any file of any kind from there. Personally I don't, and I have all my frequent app icons on my desktop and go there but there's nothing freaky about going to many locations for every kind of file via Bridge if you want to.

There are, in fact, times you'd want to. Let's say I'm designing a CD cover booklet and there's lots of text in it. I can have the booklet design format layer in Photoshop, go to Bridge to acquire photos to put on other layers, and go to Bridge and open text documents that contain band member profiles, band contact information, trademarks, graphic logos, SKU bar codes, etc. to copy and paste onto more layers in the CD booklet as well. It totally makes sense.

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Dec 6, 2015 19:00:54   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
marcomarks wrote:
What's your point? If Adobe is involved in photography and graphics, doesn't have a word processor, database, or spreadsheet program in their lineup, why would they even mention the output of programs of that type? Let Adobe buy software products for those functions and they'd start to promote that Bridge can handle it. Otherwise they have no real reason financially to promote such abilities which could confuse the issue for newbies.

I think even though they don't (currently) have those programs they should mention those capabilities in their description. It makes the program more generally useful and could be a selling point. But then I don't work for a large corporation and I'm not an expert in marketing so that is just my inexperienced opinion.

marcomarks wrote:
... Let's say I'm designing a CD cover booklet and there's lots of text in it. I can have the booklet design format layer in Photoshop, go to Bridge to acquire photos to put on other layers, and go to Bridge and open text documents that contain band member profiles, band contact information, trademarks, graphic logos, SKU bar codes, etc. to copy and paste onto more layers in the CD booklet as well. It totally makes sense.

Thank you. At last a concrete example of how Bridge would be useful to someone who does more than just photographic manipulation.

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Dec 6, 2015 20:01:21   #
Dngallagher Loc: Wilmington De.
 
russelray wrote:
LOL
If one just wants a photograph cataloging database, Lightroom works very well. If one needs a cataloging database library that understands much more than just photographs, such as videos, Corel Draw files, InDesign files, Illustrator files, Word files, Excel files, etc., etc., etc., ad nauseum, infinitum, Bridge is the way to go. It is so much more than just a photograph cataloging database library.


Perhaps you should have lead with that statement, instead of you got fed up with Lightroom losing files ;D

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Jan 27, 2016 14:59:53   #
speters Loc: Grangeville/Idaho
 
Dngallagher wrote:
That is only because NEF, like CR2 is proprietary and Adobe cannot write directly to the file, which is why a sidecar XMP file is used, or you must SAVE AS in Photoshop. Unfortunately, it is NOT automatic in Photoshop as it will default to overnight, the saving grace is ids you edit a raw file it cannot overnight by default.

I make use of Lightroom as my front end to Photoshop as well as my tool for managing and organizing my image collection.

I convert all NEF's to DNG prior to editing but after import and after deleting uneducable files, once files are DNG I eliminate the need for sidecar files since Adobe can write changes (XMP data) into the DNG files, but the raw data of the image remains untouched, the XMP changes can be backed out or removed easily within Lightroom with the click of a button.

When the image is sent from Lightroom to Photoshop, the image returned is after a save AS, so it is a fresh image, for me usually a TIFF, that gets stacked along with the original image.

The TIFF from Photoshop has all the adjustments "baked in". There is no backing them out, UNLESS the edits were done using layers for each adjustment or done as smart objects.

The basic difference is Lightroom is a parametric editor - it applies parameters to the original file to show you a different view (XMP data/XMP sidecars).

Photoshop is a pixel level editor, it changes pixels within the image, and on output you get the changed file, UNLESS you output a file that has the layers that you worked in, including an untouched background layer, or adjustments added as smart objects.

I am sure if you watch close, you will see layers, smart objects, or SAVE AS being used to preserve the original.
That is only because NEF, like CR2 is proprietary ... (show quote)

The edits in a TIFF from photoshop are not baked-in. That is one of the advantages of TIFF files, similar to raw files, one can come back later and do any changes (to wich ever layer/and/or data), as one sees fit!!

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Jan 27, 2016 15:41:34   #
donnahde Loc: Newark, DE
 
I'm still using mainly LR for organizing and basic editing and then PS or Topaz for composites, extractions, etc. I started with LR and old habits die hard. Besides, my current trainer, Sebastian Michaels always starts with LR and then moves to PS so it's easiest to not fight with Mother Nature. In the course I was taking when I started this thread the instructor was singing the praises of Bridge and PS and not giving much attention to LR. Love what I'm learning about everything though so it's all good!

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Jan 27, 2016 18:14:38   #
Dale40203 Loc: Louisville, KY
 
speters wrote:
The edits in a TIFF from photoshop are not baked-in. That is one of the advantages of TIFF files, similar to raw files, one can come back later and do any changes (to wich ever layer/and/or data), as one sees fit!!


Photoshop supports "Adjustment layers" which allow future changes to an image. TIFF files don't save adjustment layers. When you adjust a curve in Photoshop and save it as a TIFF, the change is set.

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