BrentHarder Loc: Southern California

Yesterday my wife and I went to the Mission Viejo Library to see all the 80 photos that were submitted into the photo contest there. Just as we were looking at the photos, a woman came by with award ribbons and placed a first place award ribbon on my photo that I entered. I'm also attaching two other photos of the my painting that won 1st place in an all Orange county competition. This was held at the Orange County Fair in Southern California. Each artist from each city had 5 hours to paint something that represented their city. The second photo is that painting and the third photo is where the painting is now hanging in the library.
What I find most interesting is that the first photograph I entered into a photo competition at the Orange County Fair. The judges did not feel the photograph was even worthy to be on display at the Fair, let alone win any awards. Now I have entered the exact same photograph in our local city competition and it won 1st place in it's division. This goes to prove that competitions such as this are purely subjectional because of the judge's personal opinions. Sad but true. Have any of you ever had a bad experience similar to mine in a competition? Does anyone have a solution to accurately giving out the right award to the right photograph or painting? I have come to realize that it's all about "personal opinion" and even though I have two first place ribbons for this photograph and the painting, it really doesn't mean that mine was superior over any of the other photographs or paintings........it's all about personal preference.

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Meives Loc: FORT LAUDERDALE

[quote=BrentHarder]Many of your photo art is worth awards and hanging on the wall, Brent. Your work is outstanding. I have posted the list of items to be judged by one of the photography societies. I support this list. Of course you get extra points if you nail the subject. An honest judge should take their time and set points for each area and be objective and not bias or subjective. David

PPA, Professional Photographers of America

The Twelve elements listed below are in accordance to their importance.

1. IMPACT
2. TECHNICAL EXCELLENCE
3. CREATIVITY
4. STYLE
5. COMPOSITION
6. PRESENTATION
7. COLOR BALANCE
8. CENTER OF INTEREST
9. LIGHTING
10. SUBJECT MATTER
11. TECHNIQUE
12. STORY TELLING

Nikonian72 Loc: Chico CA

You are correct about judge's subjectivity. I have viewed photographs that were excellent in presentation, and I know were technically very difficult to capture, yet were beat-out by a more common subject that was dear to the heart of a non-photographer judge. I understand that prolific contest submitters, gear their subject matter, based on who will be judging a particular contest. That had never occurred to me.

twhrider Loc: Indiana

Congrats on your wins. Lovely work. Yes, I've been in that position, although not in photography, but I would say anyone who competes stands a better than average chance of being in that position. Anytime you go before a judge, you are getting that judge's opinion. People view things differently. I took a malamute puppy to her first show, and she won the puppy class out of 8 bitches, and then went on to win reserve winners to a major against a strong entry of open class bitches. Great. I got a neat trophy, some nice ribbons, and I was thrilled with the potential of my little girl. The next day, different judge, there were NO puppies entered other than my little girl (that should have told me something). The show was outdoors, she was having a great time, and was a little distracted. The judge gave me a second place ribbon in a class of one, told me I was lucky to get that, and to take my piece of trash out of his ring. Now, if he had said, "you need to take her home and train her" I'dve swallowed hard and gone on....but grrrr.....I was PEEVED. And my husband was really peeved, because he had to ride home with me. But....it happens. That judge went on my list with a comment of "NO puppies" and I went on. It does get frustrating....

Morning Star Loc: West coast, North of the 49th N.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
I used to judge at the local Fall Fair in our district, and after we moved, in the area we live now. Not photography, but many of the same principles apply, I'm sure.

For example: I the cross stitch category, I would have to be very careful that I would not give more points to a piece of work that made an immediate good impression by subject matter or colours. I had to make a conscious effort to first look at the workmanship, the choice of materials and their suitability for the work, compliance with the competition rules, etc. With all that, I tried very hard to be absolutely fair in awarding points.
There was one time when I disqualified a tablecloth that should have won in its category hands-down - but the rules stated that an item had to be spotlessly clean, and in one corner this cloth had a large (abt 4 inches) stain.... It was put on display but with the stain folded away.

For any competition, Local Fall Fair, National Fair, Club level competition, I want to see an explanation of why this item got a ribbon, and while it is impossible to write an evaluation for every single entry, for items where I thought I could expect improvement from the submitter, I wrote a note even if the item wasn't a winner.

But, we all have different tastes and it is difficult to leave your personal preferences at home and give a completely honest and unbiased adjudication.

ebbote Loc: Hockley, Texas

Congratulations Brent, a well deserved win.

Robert Graybeal Loc: Myrtle Beach

I and my friends have experienced the same thing.

That's life, pal. Live with it.

Coolcameragirl Loc: Bradenton, FL

Congratulations - Both look like first place ribbons to me.

I am a member of camera club with monthly competition. The same thing happens there. Many of the judges are old timers who prefer birds and/or landscapes. If you try anything new, the score goes down. Sometimes even the quality doesn't matter, as long as it's something they personally like.

It is changing (slowly) for the better.

Elliern Loc: Myrtle Beach, SC

[quote=Meives]

Our local camera club hands this list out to all its members to use for voting and for critiquing submitted photos. Even when using this list, people's opinions can often vary widely. I think it will always be at least somewhat subjective.

By its very nature, art is subjective.

By the way, Brent. I think your painting was fantastic, more so given the time constraint. And your photo was very creative, had technical excellence and certainly has impact. Well done and congratulations.

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

CONGRATS!!!!!!!! Brent. Well deserved.
--Bob

MakuaMan Loc: Waianae, Hi.

I love the surfing shot Brent even though I don't care for competition's for that exact reason. You have 1st place in my book.
Aloha, M.M.

tsilva Loc: Arizona

That's why "local" competitions including your camera club or forum usually don't mean crap. If you aren't in "The Clique" you lose.

It goes the other way too, crap pictures getting "great shots", 5 thumbs up etc. This helps no one.

Even ppa comps can go this way. You really want to know if you are any good, search out a REAL professional and have him critique your portfolio. (Bring plenty of tissues and an inflatable ring to sit on)

Photographer Jim Loc: Rio Vista, CA

With the exceptions of those competitions which involve judging things which can be quantified (time to complete a 100m run; points in a football game), most competitions will involve some amount of subjectivity in judging. There is no way, for example, to engineer things to exclude any measures of subjectivity such that the "right" pot of chili wins the coveted Golden Chili trophy at the state chili cook off! Judge's personal sense of taste and preferences can't be eliminated. The judge may have a set of "standards" that they employ to help them cull the field, but in the end their personal sense of taste will dictate their final decision.

I see photography competitions as being similar. We can't objectify all of the factors that go into making an image an obvious winner. Judges may place importance on factors such as sharpness, color balance, etc., to weed through submissions, and even these factors are difficult, if not impossible to judge in a quantifiable manner. And even if we could quantify those elements, we would still be left with the problem of dealing with the highly subjective aesthetic, emotional, and intellectual components that are an inextricable part of any expressive art work. Ultimately, the subjective decisions of a judge HAS to come into play. There is simply no way around it.

I understand your frustration. I have one piece that has taken Best in Show at five different competitions, while not getting so much as an honorable mention at others. I had one piece rejected from a show by a respectable judge on the basis that it was "Photoshop gone wild"! The same image took a silver medal a week later at the largest public competition on the West Coast, and was later purchased by a micro brewery in SoCal as the centerpiece for over the bar of their new public tasting room. Sure, I was disappointed with the first judge's decision, but I also realize that differing judge's tastes and preferences are part of the deal when entering art in a competition. I don't know of any way to eliminate it, so I choose to accept things as they are and not take the disappointments too seriously. Although the judge may not award my image with a ribbon or medal, I'm pretty confident that by entering the competition somebody came along and viewed my work and thought to themselves, "I like that"! In the end, that's good enough for me.

Bobspez Loc: Southern NJ, USA

To quote Ricky Nelson,
"But it's all right now, I learned my lesson well.
You see, ya can't please everyone, so ya got to please yourself."
Lyrics from the Chorus of his song "Garden Party"
Even Ricky felt that way.

TheDman Loc: USA

[quote=Meives]

I disagree with this order. Creativity for creativity's sake does not help a photo one bit. You need all of the other elements to be strong first; then if it is also creative, bonus.

An art show near me has live judging based on three categories, one of them being "creativity". My traditional landscapes always score low in that category and strong in the others, which kept leading to me being rejected in favor of photographers who's shots were such 'creative' subjects as dead butterflies in envelopes, pill bottles full of marbles, and roadkill. Was that creative? Absolutely. Did it sell? Not at all.