Uuglypher Loc: South Dakota (East River)

Some recent references to "using EBTR" have elicited several queries by PM, email, and phone. So I thought this new Section would be the ideal place for a thread encouraging users of ETTR (Expose to the Right) and, especially, EBTR (Expose Beyond the Right) to present some of their resulting images SOOC compared with the tonally normalized images showing the benefits of using the all the extra raw-accessible dynamic range (EBTR).

A detailed discussion of ERADR, ETTR and EBTR can be found at:

http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-262533-1.html

attached are two graphics clarifying (it is hoped...) the concepts of ETTR and EBTR.

...followed by one example of ETTR (SOOC and following tonal normalization)
and one rxample of EBTR ( SOOC and following tonal normalization.

Be sure to view as downloads and to compare the histograms and actions in ACR.

remember, your camera's LCD display present ONLY a JPEG-adjusted thunbnail and a JPEG-adjusted histogram frame, somthat correctly exposed raw data captures will always appear washed out with "blown" highlight detail.

Here's hoping we can see additional examples of ETTR and EBTR form fellow Hoggers.

those who attended last year's Badlands Rendezvous will recognize some of these slides from our noontime seminar on ETTR/EBTR.
That was a great get-together!

Dave in SD

Ettr vs EBTR HISTOGRAMS

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ETTR: SOOC & Normalized

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EBTR: SOOC & Normalized

(Download)

simonbowen Loc: hampton court uk

Interesting topic - I recommend readers use the link. I hadn't seen this before and you have to be thanked for the thread which taught me a lot.
That's not to say I agree with it! I always expose to the left - mea culpa.

Uuglypher Loc: South Dakota (East River)

Non tua culpa!
I am well aware that some prefer ETTR with full awareness and balancing of the relative consequences / benefits thereof!

Thanks for stopping by, Simon, and please return and contribute as the discussion develops.

Dave

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

Simon, with film I expose to the left, but develop to the right. That is black and white film.

I had to change that around considerably when I started using digital.
--Bob

Uuglypher Loc: South Dakota (East River)

O.K. Simon,
Sorry 'bout that.
I intended to say:
I am well aware that some prefer ETTL with full awareness and balancing of the relative consequences / benefits thereof!

My turn for mea culpa!

Dave

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

Here is one I took yesterday. The main reason for choosing this subject was the white clouds that were available. I spot metered the brightest portion of the cloud and then adjusted my shutter speed to move everything 6 stops to the right.

The first image is SOOC with no compensation. The accompanying histogram is located immediately below the image.

The second image had the exposure compensated by moving the exposure slider to -2. The accompanying histogram is located immediately below that image.

The images are screen capture of the ACR screen in PS.

The third image is somewhat finished. Just to give an idea what some burning and dodging will do above the exposure compensated image.
--Bob

SOOC

(Download)

SOOC Histgogram


Compensated

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Compensated Histogram


Pretty Much Finished

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Uuglypher Loc: South Dakota (East River)

Hi, Bob,
Looking first at your "pretty much finished " image my first reaction was "I've been there and I wish just one of my images looked like that!"
The depth is wonderfully emphasized by the warm-to-cool color temperature shift and the related atmospheric perspective. This image is a veritable clinic on their merits! And your usual more-than-competent nurturing of the maximized tonal spectrum resulted in magnificent cloud detail!
Great Use of hyperfocality give good sharpness from the foreground creosote, through the noble sentinel mesquite tree, all the way to the montaine horizon.

The SOOC histogram nicely demonstrates your use the maximum Dynamic Range available by ETTR with no blown highlights.

Thanks much, Bob, for including the histograms.

I'm hoping we'll also have postings that will include images made by use of the Extra Raw-accessible Dynamic Range (ERADR) by Exposure Beyond the Right (EBTR).

Best regards,
Dave

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

Thanks, Dave, for the compliments.

Glad I could help. If I have some spare time this weekend, I'll give the ERADR technique a try. I have some yearly commitments which may affect how much time can devote to experiments. However, the thread will be here and there is always the next weekend.
--Bob

Uuglypher Loc: South Dakota (East River)

Can one screw-up (overexpose) EBTR?

Sure enough, and here's how!

I over-estimated my ability to stretch the ETTR envelope before adding the Extra Raw-Accessible Dynamic Range ( one and 2/3 Stops) in that camera!

Result? Blown highlight detail in those white petals!

y'd think at my age I'da learned that a bit of hubris is bound to turn in its tracks and bite me on the butt!

I should add that there really was no particular good reason to stretch the limits of EBTR on such a sunny day with a luxurient scene Dynamic Range!

Dave

Don't stretch ETTR before adding ERADR

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rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

Dave, rest assured that I have done the same thing. I've just not had the fortitude to post those. However, in the interest of the science of ETTR/EBTR it's nice that you shared this example with us.
--Bob

Uuglypher Loc: South Dakota (East River)

Another example of EBTR, and responses to some F.A.Qs:

Dave

EBTR-

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why test each camera?

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How to test your camera's ERADR

(Download)

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

Another example, thanks to the clouds that were available.
--Bob

SOOC

(Download)

SOOC Histgogram


Normalized

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Normalized - Histogram

Frank2013 Loc: San Antonio, TX. & Milwaukee, WI.

Do not think you gentlemen are just talking to each other. This is extremely interesting to me. I do not have time to study it at the moment but rest assured I will find time at some point. I would like to thank you Dave for introducing the topic and you Bob for chiming in with examples.

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

Although this was a complete mistake, one can see the amount of detail that can me retrieved from an extreme ETTR image.

I screwed up. Here are two images, each made from the initial RAW file. There I was, sitting, looking out the window, when I saw an H3 helicopter heading toward Sky Harbor Airport. This was back in March of 2010. I had not had my digital camera for all that long and had mostly photographed in P mode. The camera was set to Manual, as I was working on moving away from the auto settings.

I neglected to remember the mode setting and in my haste to grab a photo of this military helicopter flying overhead, I just grabbed the camera, headed out the door, pointed and shot. Of course, you can imagine my disappointment when I viewed the file. Sticking to my practice of never deleting any image, it was archived.

The first image is a straight out of the camera image. The second was what I could recover in ACR. There was enough image data in the RAW file to be able to get an OK image from a horrible mistake. I don't believe a jpg original image would have been usable. This should help some of you folks who are vacillating between RAW and JPG formats, as well as present an extreme example of ETTR.
--Bob

(Download)




(Download)

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

Frank, Dave and I are collaborating a bit on this topic. We are both proponents of this technique and the beneficial aspects of applying it.

As shown in my most recent post, helicopter, even a drastic mistake is somewhat recoverable using the amount of data collected in a RAW file.

Unfortunately, though a good deal of the folks here are aware of ETTR, it is much like The Zone System, and its use in film exposure/development. Only a few are willing to work on acquiring a level of working knowledge and comfort to use it.
--Bob