Speedlight Test
Jul 28, 2015 02:22:16 #
Just for fun I thought I would set up my 3 speedlights as I'm thinking for a reception.
Camera was my 6D fitted with a Canon 24-105 F/4 IS lens, set to:
ISO 1250
1/160
F/6.3
Key light was bare flash, Canon 600EX-RT, 11 foot stand, tilted 20 degrees downward, manual, 1/8 power, zoom fixed at 50mm, 25 feet from chair
Rim light was 40 feet behind chair, Canon 600EX-RT, bare flash, manual, 1/32 power, set 7 feet up on fence, looking at chair, zoomed fixed at 105mm
Fill light was on-camera, Canon 600EX-RT, auto zoom, manual, 1/32 power, bare flash, I was 20 feet from chair.
Notice the light shadows, defined but not harsh with key being slightly dominate. Rim has a nice starburst effect with these settings. Ambient light stayed very constant between the different zoom settings.
Exposure was just a tad under when I checked in LR. I uploaded all in full resolution. No noise reduction was used.
Might make a slight adjustment on the rim light location. Might be better a bit more to the right, 180 degrees off axis from the Key. This would allow me to include the rim starburst when I wanted it in the composition but still be able to box it out but still have rim light on subject's heads, or i could simply turn it off. When turning off I could go to the other side of the key light for a different vantage point.
Camera was my 6D fitted with a Canon 24-105 F/4 IS lens, set to:
ISO 1250
1/160
F/6.3
Key light was bare flash, Canon 600EX-RT, 11 foot stand, tilted 20 degrees downward, manual, 1/8 power, zoom fixed at 50mm, 25 feet from chair
Rim light was 40 feet behind chair, Canon 600EX-RT, bare flash, manual, 1/32 power, set 7 feet up on fence, looking at chair, zoomed fixed at 105mm
Fill light was on-camera, Canon 600EX-RT, auto zoom, manual, 1/32 power, bare flash, I was 20 feet from chair.
Notice the light shadows, defined but not harsh with key being slightly dominate. Rim has a nice starburst effect with these settings. Ambient light stayed very constant between the different zoom settings.
Exposure was just a tad under when I checked in LR. I uploaded all in full resolution. No noise reduction was used.
Might make a slight adjustment on the rim light location. Might be better a bit more to the right, 180 degrees off axis from the Key. This would allow me to include the rim starburst when I wanted it in the composition but still be able to box it out but still have rim light on subject's heads, or i could simply turn it off. When turning off I could go to the other side of the key light for a different vantage point.
Jul 28, 2015 09:01:54 #
It is all about trial and error with lighting. Especially, at a reception when you throw in moving people and lots of different ambient lighting sources. One simple method that I like to use if available is firing a strobe into a white wall to create a giant softbox mix with the ambient. Your rim light is pretty cool. I have seen online videos where colored gels are used (blue). I tried it once and didn't like the amount of blue. Maybe I will drop the power in the next experiment.
By the way, nice back yard! The grass and landscaping looks immaculate. I take back my statement about you not needing weeding because of water shortage :)
By the way, nice back yard! The grass and landscaping looks immaculate. I take back my statement about you not needing weeding because of water shortage :)
Jul 28, 2015 16:49:11 #
FYI,
I had a email from David Ziser today and he answered a question I sent to him.
On the on-camera fill flash he uses ETTL - 1 or 2 stops. The key lights are set to manual at 1/16 power at 50mm on the zoom set. Of cousre he is firing away at 3200ISO on a 5DIII. I'm at 1/8 power, twice as strong as David's but I'm at 1250 ISO and remember I said I was a tad under exposed on my Key light .......... all makes perfect sense.
Later this week I'll try again but move the rim light over to the right, 180 degrees off-axis from the Key. Change to ETTL on-camera minus 1 - 2 stops. I'll raise my ISO to 2500. I bet that will be a great startingspot for the future :)
I had a email from David Ziser today and he answered a question I sent to him.
On the on-camera fill flash he uses ETTL - 1 or 2 stops. The key lights are set to manual at 1/16 power at 50mm on the zoom set. Of cousre he is firing away at 3200ISO on a 5DIII. I'm at 1/8 power, twice as strong as David's but I'm at 1250 ISO and remember I said I was a tad under exposed on my Key light .......... all makes perfect sense.
Later this week I'll try again but move the rim light over to the right, 180 degrees off-axis from the Key. Change to ETTL on-camera minus 1 - 2 stops. I'll raise my ISO to 2500. I bet that will be a great startingspot for the future :)
Jul 29, 2015 08:59:35 #
Beercat wrote:
FYI, br br I had a email from David Ziser today a... (show quote)
Once again, amazed. I never would have thought to, or had the nerve to just drop David Ziser an email. I really wouldn't have thought he'd reply. Just goes to show, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
I have a "blind" wedding shoot this weekend, and am hoping that I can try some of your suggestions out as well. The bride's main location is still flooded, so they've moved us to a country club. I just found out late yesterday, that the wedding and reception are being held outside if the weather permits, and if there is rain, we still aren't inside, they will put is all in a tent. It never fails, as soon as I think I know what we're doing, everything gets changed.
Not that I mind shooting outside, or in a tent, but it completely ruins our photo booth (nobody can see the laptop screen, including "she who must be obeyed." We usually make quite a bit of $$ with the booth, so some of these changes are quite painful.
Hopefully, I'll have some examples of my attempt with your/David's set up. If there are no sides on the tent, or if there is wind, I'm not going to leave stands out, even with sandbags. I broke a really nice softbox on this same couple's engagement shoot due to an unexpected puff of wind when the rest of the day had been really calm.
Jul 29, 2015 10:04:50 #
OK, so I tried my setup last night, the one with the chairs at the beginning.
After my communication with David I came up with these.
I learned more after this try, so here is the final numbers that should be a great starting point.
ISO1250
1/160
F/6.3
35mm
Key light at 1/6 power, zoom 50mm, 25 feet from middle of dance floor up around 11 feet and tilted so the horizontal plane of the light is aimed at what would be chest level on the B&G dancing.
Rim light around 40 feet behind the middle of the dance floor set at 8 feet blasting out in parallel with the ground (not tilted downward (set at 1/64 power, zoom at 105mm.
Fill light on camera set to ETTL minus 2 stops with some sort of softening modifier, I used a Super Scoop II.
Here are a few examples except I had the rim light at 1/32 which as you can see is to hot, thus me telling you to use 1/64 power on the rim.
Tonight I'm going to try David's way and settings. It's a bit simpler than what I'm doing. I'll post some samples tomorrow of that try but for now here is one from last nights try based on my setup I've explained. Remember the rim was a stop to hot. FYI, the ambient light was 4-5 stops under, about what I would expect at a reception. My camera had no issues focusing in that range. I left the mega data. My better half would kill me if she knew I posted this picture :shock:
Notice the nice soft shadows on the lawn but her face has no hot spots. The key light is slightly dominate which I wanted. Notice the eye sockets are filled (no raccoon eyes). As I said, the only thing I would change now is throttle back the rim light one stop.
The key light is at 1/6 shooting through an umbrella just to make sure the light stays soft. I could change the key power to 1/16 but I would need to push up my ISO, it's a trade off, more battery life but a bit more grain. I'm going to check the data to see how many flashes I can obtain at 1/6 power, it might not even be an issue.
After my communication with David I came up with these.
I learned more after this try, so here is the final numbers that should be a great starting point.
ISO1250
1/160
F/6.3
35mm
Key light at 1/6 power, zoom 50mm, 25 feet from middle of dance floor up around 11 feet and tilted so the horizontal plane of the light is aimed at what would be chest level on the B&G dancing.
Rim light around 40 feet behind the middle of the dance floor set at 8 feet blasting out in parallel with the ground (not tilted downward (set at 1/64 power, zoom at 105mm.
Fill light on camera set to ETTL minus 2 stops with some sort of softening modifier, I used a Super Scoop II.
Here are a few examples except I had the rim light at 1/32 which as you can see is to hot, thus me telling you to use 1/64 power on the rim.
Tonight I'm going to try David's way and settings. It's a bit simpler than what I'm doing. I'll post some samples tomorrow of that try but for now here is one from last nights try based on my setup I've explained. Remember the rim was a stop to hot. FYI, the ambient light was 4-5 stops under, about what I would expect at a reception. My camera had no issues focusing in that range. I left the mega data. My better half would kill me if she knew I posted this picture :shock:
Notice the nice soft shadows on the lawn but her face has no hot spots. The key light is slightly dominate which I wanted. Notice the eye sockets are filled (no raccoon eyes). As I said, the only thing I would change now is throttle back the rim light one stop.
The key light is at 1/6 shooting through an umbrella just to make sure the light stays soft. I could change the key power to 1/16 but I would need to push up my ISO, it's a trade off, more battery life but a bit more grain. I'm going to check the data to see how many flashes I can obtain at 1/6 power, it might not even be an issue.
Jul 29, 2015 10:24:11 #
[quote=Beercat] My better half would kill me if she knew I posted this picture :shock:
I won't tell.... :thumbup:
I won't tell.... :thumbup:
Jul 29, 2015 10:30:45 #
[quote=superpijak]
After all that info you only comment on the 'model'? :-o
Beercat wrote:
My better half would kill me if she knew I posted this picture :shock:
I won't tell.... :thumbup:
I won't tell.... :thumbup:
After all that info you only comment on the 'model'? :-o
Jul 29, 2015 12:56:06 #
Beercat wrote:
After all that info you only comment on the 'model'? :-o
My turn to mess with you.
8-)
Actually you are getting great results in your lighting trials. Seems to me you have it about dialed in. Running the speedlites at the power levels you describe are fascinating when seeing the results. I have been keeping quiet about the starburst effect from the rim light as I find it a bit distracting, but it could be just me. I have been wrong before, once I believe.
My memory is still lingering on 35mm shoots on how I was limited in shutter speed sync, I'm continuously amazed what can be accomplished digitally now. :shock:
Glad I didn't wait any longer to jump to the dark side, oops rather the digital side. Imagine how much further behind I would be.
Ted
Jul 29, 2015 13:07:15 #
superpijak wrote:
My turn to mess with you. br 8-) br br Actual... (show quote)
I won't do the starburst in every shot, you never want to over do something or it loses it's effect. An yes, it's a bit hot so I'll dial it down to 1/64 when I do use it but there is a place for it, dramatic lighting is always in. What is photography all about .......... controlling/using the light :)
Tonight I'll be snapping the configuration David Ziser uses and will post some tomorrow.
Jul 29, 2015 13:21:39 #
Beercat wrote:
I won't do the starburst in every shot, you never want to over do something or it loses it's effect. An yes, it's a bit hot so I'll dial it down to 1/64 when I do use it but there is a place for it, dramatic lighting is always in. What is photography all about .......... controlling/using the light :)
Tonight I'll be snapping the configuration David Ziser uses and will post some tomorrow.
Tonight I'll be snapping the configuration David Ziser uses and will post some tomorrow.
Just curious what was the ambient lighting level like. Was this done just past sunset?
Jul 29, 2015 13:25:18 #
superpijak wrote:
Just curious what was the ambient lighting level like. Was this done just past sunset?
After sunset, about the light I would expect at most receptions. I was roughly 4-5 stops under exposed on the ambient light. I prefer to be at least 4 stops under as I end up with no blur in my photos from ambient light. I work my speed lights a bit harder to 'fill' the background but as I said, at 1/160 on the shutter and 4 stops under ambient I never get a blur.
I set things up to keep it simple while actually snapping away. I don't want to be bothered toying around with exposure while I'm trying to capture candid moments. I've got this set to make it easy to just compose and snap.
Maybe tonight I can get my better half to put on her wedding dress ........... so the subject is white :lol:
Jul 29, 2015 15:13:01 #
Beercat wrote:
I won't do the starburst in every shot, you never want to over do something or it loses it's effect. An yes, it's a bit hot so I'll dial it down to 1/64 when I do use it but there is a place for it, dramatic lighting is always in. What is photography all about .......... controlling/using the light :)
Tonight I'll be snapping the configuration David Ziser uses and will post some tomorrow.
Tonight I'll be snapping the configuration David Ziser uses and will post some tomorrow.
When I do setups like this, I also really like the dramatic rim light look that I get with the rim light low and completely hidden by the bodies of the bride and groom. What is really cool is with a gel on the rim light too.
It may just be this non calibrated monitor (at "work" work now, not my "fun" work) But your lovely bride (yes, she is lovely, there, I said it) still seems a touch underexposed. Like I said, it may just be my monitor, but in comparison to the background, she's brighter, but doesn't quite "jump" off the page.
That is just for what it's worth. I've seen other posts that didn't look correct, but several people told me that it looked great on their monitors, so....
Thanks for sharing all this info. I really do need to start setting up lighting scenarios when I'm not busy. Problem (not complaining) is that I have the wedding this weekend, another set of headshots, a 1 year old "smash the cake session" and a senior portrait all scheduled between this coming Saturday, and the following Saturday. So much for being a "weekend warrior"
Appreciate everything you share with us on the forum. I continue to learn by all the posts.
Jul 29, 2015 15:31:32 #
Remember I said I was a tad under? About 1/3 stop under once I got in LR. That is why I said I'd move the Key light from 1/8 to 1/6, I could also move my shutter from 1/160 to 1/180 to help with the pop.. Remember she is wearing a dark shirt and paints so it could influence the outcome a tad. A bride's dress would pop a bit more plus make the background a tad darker.
Jul 30, 2015 13:56:10 #
Beercat wrote:
Remember I said I was a tad under? About 1/3 stop under once I got in LR. That is why I said I'd move the Key light from 1/8 to 1/6, I could also move my shutter from 1/160 to 1/180 to help with the pop.. Remember she is wearing a dark shirt and paints so it could influence the outcome a tad. A bride's dress would pop a bit more plus make the background a tad darker.
Gotcha. I'm getting my posts confused. Trying to catch up with my day job, and with UHH after being out of town for over a week.
Jul 30, 2015 13:58:40 #
bkyser wrote:
Gotcha. I'm getting my posts confused. Trying to catch up with my day job, and with UHH after being out of town for over a week.
I forgot to change one thing last night when I was setup like Ziser does. So I'll try it again tonight ;)
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