DJO

There is seemingly an endless amount of questions/ comments about exposure. Every photographer should have an incident (hand held) light meter, with flash capability, in their bag. Or on their belt with a point and shoot camera case. B and H has popular high quality meter for about $200.00. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/368226-REG/Sekonic_401_309_L_308S_Flashmate_Light_Meter.html In the year 2015, $200.00 for an invaluable piece of equipment is a bargain. Once you learn to use it you will have an accurate exposure for almost any situation. Shooting wildlife? Hold the meter above your head pointed the opposite direction of the lens. Is the sun less bright 1000 yards from where you are standing? No it is not. Landscapes- 1 or2 or several miles away? Still no.

I purchased a light meter similar to the one above some 20+ years ago. It costs less now than it did then. I haven't used the meter in my camera since. Back in the day I used a Nikon FM2. An all mechanical camera, the battery powered only the camera's light meter. I never even bothered to put the battery in.

BebuLamar

What is accurate exposure?

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

Other than for flash, the camera's meter, used in manual exposure mode, is just as good if not better, than a hand held meter. I still own a Gossen Luna Pro and a Gossen Luna Pro SBC with a flash attachment, and though there are both great and accurate devices, I will only use the flash meter in studio, where it truly shines - opting for the in camera meter for the rest of my shooting, which in addition to landscapes includes wildlife, birds in flight, sports, equestrian competitions, motor sports, cycling events, etc, where a hand held meter would be completely cumbersome to use. If I were to do landscape and architectural exclusively, then I would buy either an incident meter that could be profiled to my camera for accurate dynamic range, or use a spot meter and my 49 years of horse sense in determining correct exposures. But that is what works for me and it will likely be different for others.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

Literally, when you get as much visual information into a file without sacrificing shadows or highlights - which as you know is not always possible. So one consensus is to expose to the right - in such a way that you do not lose the highlights, and adjust the rest of the tonal values in post processing. This is exactly what we used to do with reversal film, which was then shot with negative film then processed into a print. A clear area on a slide is about the same as a blown digital highlight. A b&w negative had the opposite priority, where shadows were thin and underexposure would lose shadow detail. Here we exposed to the left. But the key then, as it is today, was to get as much tonal information as possible, then develop, dodge, burn, and mask to get to the masterpiece.

ptcanon3ti Loc: NJ

I don't see using a light meter for landscapes particularly useful. Maybe if you want to meter for the highlights only?

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

If you have an incident lightmeter that is calibrated to your camera, it will be hard to overexpose a highlight. With a spot meter and a working knowledge of the zone system it will be impossible to blow the highlights.

Didereaux Loc: Swamps of E TX

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

DJO

Whatever works for you, go for it. But consider borrowing or renting a hand held meter just to try it out. Here's the difference, perhaps you already know this. Your camera takes a REFLECTED reading, meaning it reads the amount of light bouncing off the subject, then compares this value to 50% gray, and then ESTIMATES the amount of light falling on the subject. The groom wears black, the bride wears white. What is the correct exposure? The camera has to guess. Of course cameras are much better at this than they used to be. A hand held meter takes an INCIDENT reading, giving not an estimate, but the ACTUAL amount of light falling on the subject. It doesn't matter if the subject is a black building or a white building, the reading is always the same and always correct.

I do know that I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer; certainly there are books, videos and much smarter photographers that can explain this better than I can. Thanks for reading.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

No, you set it on spot, measure the white dress, add 2/3 to 1 stop exposure to the reading provided by the meter (either in camera or hand held spotmeter), and you have a perfect exposure without blown highlights. Camera guesses nothing, and it estimates nothing. It merely does what it was told to do - read the light reflecting from the subject. But inexperienced photographer will blame camera for guessing wrong, when it was the lack of experience that led to a poor exposure because photographer was unable to interpret the information coming from the device.

It does matter if the subject is black or white, particularly in high contrast scenes where the highlights are considerably brighter than 3-4 stops above middle gray. Using an incident meter without compensating for the extra brightness will ALWAYS result in overexposed highlights. I have seen this often with beginners and intermediates who shoot weddings - no detail on the cake, the wedding dress, etc. because they thought by using an incident meter all was ok. Clearly it wasn't.

DJO

I'm happy you have a system that works and it sounds like you have a very successful career. Congratulations on your accomplishment in what we all know is a very tough business. But think about what you've written. The camera and you are both guessing, but you've guessed enough times that you know the answer. I've shot plenty of weddings, as a pro, with an incident meter, every exposure dead on. If you've seen beginners that have problems with an incident meters, it could be because they are beginners. They haven't learned how to use the meter properly, or maybe they just don't know that the meter needs to be calibrated. There's an adjustment on the back.

It's not my business, nor am I attempting, to tell anyone how to approach their trade. One way is not necessarily better than another. But from the responses I've seen seen so far, not one of you actually understands the difference between a reflected and an incident light reading. It's fine if you don't even care. Once in a while I just like to share with fellow UHH members some things I have learned over a very long pro career that may be of benefit to another photographer.

BebuLamar

I use incident meter, wide angle reflected light meter as well as spot meter. They are very useful but saying one type of meter is superior to the others is not right. They all have their pro and con.
How do you meter with an incident light meter if what you are to photograph is an image on the monitor screen? How do you meter if you are copying a slide?

Photocraig

And yes, during those golden hours, the light in the landscape a mile or two away is different than what we have at the camera location. Shadows, highlights are very localized phenomena pertinent to the subject. Use all the tools to make for good decisions. I love my 1 degree spot (flash) meter, and use the 5 degree in camera option when I'm doing landscapes and travelling light.

But there is very little difference in what we're all saying. Meters can be fooled. We know when and why and how. Incident meters aren't the panacea they're cracked up to be. But they are an indespensible tool. And at $200 for a Sekonic Flash meter, it's a bargain and an indispensible tool. Go get your Brown Truck Driver continued employment fix on guys!
C

RWR Loc: La Mesa, CA

[quote=DJO] Shooting wildlife? Hold the meter above your head pointed the opposite direction of the lens. [quote]

If I'm in the shade and that deer is in the sun, or vice-versa, an incident reading won't do much for me. I use the camera's meter if it has one, and a hand-held meter with a 7.5° angle-of-acceptance with those that don't. Incident and flash meters are useful in the studio, of course.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

I make a habit of not guessing. Can't afford to make mistakes. I use the zone system to nail every exposure, ever since I shot cut film with my Linhof and later my Sinar P and did architectural photography in the 60s and 70s. But rest assured, if your scene exceeds the dynamic range of your camera, you will blow out highlights unless you make an adjustment. In studio settings where you control the light I use incident readings, mostly with flash meters to set lighting ratios. I know of no better way to do that. But out in the field, where you can experience a contrast range of 15 or more stops, the only way to nail the exposure is to measure the highlight reflectance, adjust the amount of exposure compensation based on your camera's dynamic headroom characteristic - and shoot. No guesswork. No mistakes.

Perhaps you should read up on the zone system - it has worked for many many photographers through the years - I guess that makes it a time proven approach.

This illustrates the shortcomings of incident meters, and why spot meters reading reflectance are far more accurate especially in high contrast and/or strong backlight and side light scenes.

http://phototechmag.com/using-a-hand-held-light-meter-for-landscape-photography/

Using an incident meter assumes a contrast range in the scene that is less than the camera's dynamic range. This should be a simple concept to get your head around. When the scene exceeds the camera's range, then you have to make decisions about how much highlight you are are willing to use. That should also be an easy concept. Why you insist that your method is perfect for all situations, when in fact you are a wedding guy and don't shoot all situations, is beyond me. I have been a generalist through my 49 yrs as a photographer. Architectural, model composites, catalog work, commercial work, portraiture, event and weddings, equestrian competitions, collegiate ruby, LaCrosse, soccer and rowing events, baseball, football, Irish football, fireworks displays, landscape, urban landscape, street photography, wildlife, birds, birds in flight, graduation ceremonies, some (limited) reportage, etc. I have shot in rollfilm medium format, 4x5, 35mm, and now digital, color and black and white, processed black and white, cibachrome and dye transfers in my facility, etc etc etc through the years. I adopted the zone system in 1969 after reading Ansel Adams The Negative, The Print, and Fred Picker's Zone VI Workshop. I have taken over 250,000 images through the years.

BTW, if you attach an Expodisk to your camera an point it at the light it does an excellent job as an incident light meter along with creating a reasonably accurate custom white balance setting.

I am happy, as you put it, that you have a system that works for you. And that you believe, in your line of work that it is the best alternative. I am a firm believer of "if it ain't broke don't fix it." However, I do take issue insinuating that my work boils down to guesswork, simply because you lack the familiarity with other methods (the Zone system, specifically) to determine exposure.

Dude I've done it all ways, and there is a time and place for each. The only method that is completely appropriate for ALL situations is the Zone system - but it does require a little more work and understanding of exposure than simply pointing a device at a light and doing what it tells you to do. Where's the fun in that?

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

Meters cannot be fooled. It's only the photographer that is made a fool of when he/she fails to understand what the meter is reading :)