GrandmaG Loc: Flat Rock, MI

So, after I put the SD card in the card reader, a little window pops up so I can add the event name to the photos, then Windows creates a folder with today's date, and the name I entered and names all the pics with that name; & numbers them in the order taken.

Now I can import into Lightroom, make smart previews (1:1), add keywords, etc. I tried doing the import just using Lightroom, but I didn't like the naming convention and I didn't see how I could change it.

I've watched quite a few tutorials on Lightroom...Jared Platt and Anthony Morganti and a few others. Jared's "organization" plan is VERY complicated. He says it is actually easy to do; it just takes a long time to explain.

So here's my question. After my photo has been imported into Lightroom and I Develop it, do I have to export it to save it? Anthony Morganti said you don't have to save your image because it is always there; but I made extensive edits to a photo; then went to the folder I got it from to look at it and it wasn't there!!! I did find it eventually, but I don't see the side car file anywhere & the history for my edits is gone too. What did I do wrong?

1. Do I have to export it, then re-import it if I want it back in Lightroom?

2. Also, after I edit the photo, the original raw has been replaced by the edited version. Where is the original raw?

3. Also, if I rename something outside of Lightroom, can Lightroom still find it? I know if you move or delete a pic outside of Lr, you have to show Lr where it is.

4. Should I convert my finished raw pic to a dng so that I don't have to worry about the side car file?

I guess I want my Windows folder and my Lightroom folder to match, so maybe I need to change my mindset. I know there are many of you who could explain this to me.

I watched Jared's videos on the Library Module twice, & I still didn't get everything he said, so I'll be watching it again. His videos for the "Ultimate Lightroom Workflow" was a 3 day session. I've watched all the videos for Days 1 & 2 only. I will start day 3 tomorrow.

I did learn a LOT from Anthony Morganti about basic editing and I finally got a decent pic out of a hopeless case. There's a before & after below. In the meantime, I will keep studying.

Edit: I picked the wrong "before" picture, but you get the idea.

Before

(Download)

After Lr

(Download)

baygolf Loc: DMV

Hi,
1. No, you can create a folder, e.g., named "output" then export your finished photo(s) to this folder. This folder should be created within lightroom, thereby, all finished photos will be visible in lightroom.

2. You still have your original photo, go to the "history panel -left side, in the develop Module. Select the first entry for that photo - at the very bottom in the History panel.

3. No and Yes, Yes, if you have Lr sync the folder that contains the photo that you re-named.

4. Lr does not change your original photo all changes made to your photo are made and kept in your Lr catalog.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

The simplest solution is often the best.

A good workflow is to edit your raw file as best as you can in LR, then use "edit in" to automatically open the external editor of your choice (PS if you have PSCC or a copy of PS on your computer when you installed LR, but you can add to these if you wish), creating a 16 bit TIF or PSD in ProPhoto color space. This version will automatically be added to the catalog as a 16 bit file with layering intact. This is your "working" file. The last step is creating a jpeg for distribution. Since jpegs can come in many flavors - large, small, high-med-low quality, watermark/no watermark, etc etc etc - it's best to create a preset for each of these output styles if you anticipate using them more than once. You don't save jpegs, you save the preset to create them. And you create them on demand from the working file. You have the option of using sidecar files or not. I don't. I leave the edits in the preview catalog.

With that being said I'll take your questions/concerns in order.

1. No. Using the "Edit In" option will do that for you.

2. The original raw file is never touched. If you want you can always make a dng file on import, but I find that to be unnecessary. Alternately you can make a virtual copy and reset all settings (single button press at the bottom of the editing panel) - but I find this also unnecessary.The original raw file is exactly where you placed it when you moved it from the card to the computer.

3. LR can find something that has been renamed. Open the Library module, navigate to the folder containing the renamed file, right click and select synchronize folder. It will add the file, remove the reference to the old file. If you use sidecar files, then don't forget to rename the sidecar.

4. Optional, not necessary. If you set LR to not use sidecars, you accomplish the same thing.

5. You don't have to have the Windows folder match the LR folders. You may not want to add your jpeg files to the folder, for instance. Also, if you use virtual copies, these will not be written to the drive as files.

Hopefully I just saved you $$$ and 3 days.

Keep in mind, LR is not a finishing tool. There are many many things that you might need to do to an image that are beyond the capabilities contained in LR. Think of LR's editing to be exactly the same as ACR in Photoshop. Even after optimizing in ACR, you still finish the image using Photoshop's tools.

Bloke Loc: Waynesboro, Pennsylvania

I know how you feel! I felt like a total idiot when I was first starting out with LR. Once you play with it a bit and get used to working in it, it does get easier, honest!

1. You don't have to export anything until you are ready to print it, or upload/email it.

2. LR will not alter the original RAW file. It just stores a list of your changes in its catalogue, and applies them to your picture when you do export it.

3. If you rename something outside of LR, it will not be able to find it. You will get some kind of error, and will have to go show the program where the file is. You really don't want to do *anything* to your pictures outside of LR. There is no point in editing the raw or dng files anywhere else, and any moving or renaming you need can be done in LR.

4. I do. I didn't want to mess with sidecar files, so I have all my raw files import as .dng files.

All the stuff about 'edit in...' is over complication. You can do a lot of your editing in LR. Photoshop is great for getting really funky with your stuff, but about 90% of the time, I just use LR.

The whole bit about windows file system and LR file system trips up a lot of people. I will explain how I do it. This may work for you, or you will eventually adapt your own style to it...

I import my photos from the camera into a folder I call "Raw images from camera". In this sense, these are also the original jpegs from cameras where I didn't have raw capability. Under that folder, I have folders for each year. Under each of them, I have folders for each 'shoot', named by date and name, like "2015-04-15 Walk in the park". This is the folder I put the raw images in. If I have taken jpegs too, I put these in a sub-folder called "Camera jpegs". Ok, these are what I like to think of as my negatives (although they are of course positive). These never get edited, touched, or messed with. So far, we have not touched LR.

Now, I import the contents of the main dated folder (but not the jpegs) into LR, using the "import as DNG" option.
I have them put into a folder under my Pictures, following the same naming convention, with the year, and under it, the folder for the shoot.

From this, I do whatever editing I want in LR. I also take them to PS for additional work if needed, then they go back to LR as either PSD or TIFF files. With the new features in LR, I haven't used PS for some time.

When the time comes to upload a picture to here, or to Facebook or whatever, I export it as a jpeg in a folder underneath it's current location, called somewhat unoriginally "Jpegs"

I hope this helps... If you want to talk further, send me a PM with your email, and I can send you screen grabs of my file structure.

When I started with this, a member on here took a lot of time to help me out and explain all this. It really does work, once you can get your head around it!

GrandmaG Loc: Flat Rock, MI

I greatly appreciate all of your replies. I have tried most of the suggestions. I will get back to you with what worked or not and what I liked or not. Plus I will probably have more questions!!

I've been a little preoccupied with my mom going into hospice care this week.

GrandmaG Loc: Flat Rock, MI

1. When I created my Lr catalog, I only imported my 2015 pictures and I already had a folder named "2015 Best". When I come back from an event, I plug my card into the card reader and name the images and windows creates a folder that is dated & named (same name as images). But it puts it on my C drive and I want to use the H drive where my catalog is, so I move the folder before I import into Lr. However, on import, Lr creates a whole new folder with just the date. Now I have 2 folders on my drive that are identical.

2 I knew the original is suppose to be there, but I lost ALL the history on one of my most complicated edited photos once, including the original import. However, the raw file is still on my hard drive where I put it in the first place.

3. I sync my folders all the time now because I can't figure out how to rename a file in Lr. So if I rename a file in Windows, I sync the folder in Lr. Hopefully, once I get a new system down pat, I won't need to rename files except on export.

When I'm done editing an image, I export it as a tif to my "BEST" folder. Then I highlight all the tif files and save them as jpegs to my Jpeg file (makes sense, huh?) so I can post them on FB or upload them to Costco for printing & sharing. I know you are suppose to be able to do this in Lr but I can't get it to work. If Costco actually let you upload tiff's like their web site says, I could eliminate this step. Maybe it's the color space that is a problem.

GrandmaG Loc: Flat Rock, MI

Well, maybe I should just forget about learning Lightroom and learn Photoshop instead. It certainly seems simpler in a lot of ways!

I tried the edit in option and that worked great the 2nd time I did it. I used the "Edit a copy with Lightroom adjustments". The first time I tried it, I didn't get that option box!?? Do you send ALL your pics that you edit in Lr to Ps for finishing?

I did make a few presets for file handling as you suggested. I've been using the synchronize folder quite a lot to get things to match. I don't know why I worry about it. My raws are safely stored in 2 or 3 places.

Ok, here's a few new questions. I thought I had too many files...over 22,000, so I created a new catalog for 2015 files only. Well, I must have done something wrong because I ended up with 2 files of EVERYTHING.

1. So I tried making another new catalog, and followed the instructions to import. No duplicates, so it worked OK, but now I can't get rid of it.

2. I like how Windows creates a dated folder & names it and all of the images with the same name (+file #) when I put the card in the card reader. However, when I open Lr, find the folder and click IMPORT, Lr makes a NEW folder (with date & no name). This means that now I have 2 folders on my computer with the exact same files in it.

3. I just checked my folders in Lightroom and quite a few images have exclamation points in the corner indicating that the file is missing. I never touched them outside of Lr. I've noticed that this happens quite often. I could understand it if I had moved them outside of Lr, but I didn't. Do you have any other suggestions?

4. It seems that saving as dng or psd is an extra file that is not needed. How do you remove sidecar files? I don't see them anyway, so maybe I don't have them.

You may have saved me $$$ but I certainly haven't saved any time!!!

I think I'll go back to my old way and just import the files I want to work on, export them to my "best" folder; then get rid of them in Lightroom (or not- it won't hurt to leave them there).

GrandmaG Loc: Flat Rock, MI

Your file structure sounds similar to mine.

1. Why don't you let Lr import your images straight from your card?

When I did it your way, I got an extra folder on my system, thanks to Lr.

2. Is there something else I should have checked on the right panel?

3. Is there an automatic way to get the "best" pics to copy into a collection so that they will sync with Lightroom Mobile?

4. Do you export from Lr through the publisher (like to Facebook)?

I am so frustrated with this whole mess, I feel like chucking the whole thing. I have spent weeks already trying to figure out the library system. The Develop module & Print module are much easier!

5. Do you think Lightroom is the best pp software? I have many pp programs on my computer, but I had heard so much praise from this site about Lightroom that I decided to concentrate on one system (Lr). I'm beginning to think that I chose the wrong one.

DavidPine Loc: Fredericksburg, TX

I use a method that fits my use. Before I import SD or CF cards, I make a folder on my external drive that reflects my photo shoot and I also make an additional folder with the same name and add -Finals. I copy my card/s to that specific folder. I then import into Lightroom saving my files to the folder I created on my external drive. When I have a finished product I export to the -Finals folder. I do this because it keeps great order for me in a way I understand and I can edit my images in other programs that may or may not be plugins. The files are very easy to find and I don't have to rely on Lightroom to find them.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

1. Windows creates only what LR tells it to create, and in turn LR creates only what you either accept as default or create on the fly. In the Library module, when you press import in the lower left corner, it changes the screen to show you a grid view of the files in the card reader or camera. In the top center it usually defaults to Copy as an action on import, but you can Copy as DNG, which creates a dng version of the file, Move which cuts and pastes the files (I rarely use that) or Add, which leaves the files in their location and just adds the files to the catalog. If you use Copy and you hover over the top right corner of the LR dekstop, you will see the details - the drive and path of the place where LR will place the files - you can either accept it or click on the box and it will open a flyout menu where it will show you a list of choices where you can place your files Desktop, My Pictures, My Videos (all of which are found usually on your C drive), and "Other Destination" and a list below that of all of your recent locations.

If you click on Other Destination it opens a Windows Explorer view, showing you your folders and drives. Here you can navigate anywhere you like, and if you click on "New folder" you can create a folder anywhere you want on the computer to put your incoming files. This is how you avoid putting files where you don't want them and having to move them later, losing edits etc.

You can put your catalog and preview files anywhere you want - your H: drive, C: drive, even a directly attached external drive. You cannot put these files on a shared external drive like a NAS device or cloud storage (I think). The LRCAT does not have to reside on the same drive as the image files.

Another way to import files and put them exactly where you want them is to use the Import options - File Handling, File Renaming, Apply During Import, and Destination - where you can rename your files, apply image adjustments during import, specify the destination, create a second copy of the file in a different location, edit the metadata to add copyright, location info etc etc etc. Just about anything you need to do with your files can be done here, and you can save parts of the import specification as templates and presets.

2. If you follow 1, you won't lose anything.

3. If you follow #1 you will not have to sync at all. You cannot rename a single file in LR. LR uses the raw file name (supposedly unique) in it's catalog. If you want to rename the files, you can do that on import -

4. You don't have to export your files to a Best folder. the fact that a tif or psd exists in your catalog will indicate that it is an edited file in the location next to it's source raw file. You can create a custom filter to show only you tif files. You never need to save a jpeg file EVER, as long as you save the preset that created it. And you never have to send a jpeg to your catalog, for the same reason. I use at least 15 different jpeg presets - I am a member of two photo clubs - and each has specific and unique naming conventions and file size and image size limits. I then have a setting I use for social media which downsamples the file and lowers the quality setting, another one for panoramic images that is slightly larger, I have a couple of settings for downsampled emails that are merely copies of the social media jpeg presets with the destination of "email" instead of the drive. I have a high quality setting that creates a full sized jpeg, with a quality of 90 which I use for client review and for printing. All of these can be set to export with or without a watermark. Once exported, the file is not saved. But since I never edit jpegs, if the file needs to be exported again, I just select the correct preset and export it. LR is fairly fast at doing this.

Costco uses the lowest common denominator in their printer setup. It is a pain to reset the printer for a short run of a couple of photos that are submitted to them as 16 bit tiff or psd files with a color space other tha sRGB. There are other custom printers that will accept tiff and larger color spaces - some will actually print 16 bit Adobe RGB, but most convert them down to 8 bit jpeg sRGB for printing in their regular workflow.

I hope this clarifies things a bit. Stop fighting LR and expecting it to behave like other programs when it comes to file mgmt. It has numerous tools to make that easier for you. iIt's best to explore and become familiar with them. One thing is certain - if something is taking too many steps, you are probably fighting LR - so do as you did - post a question on a forum, and someone will offer a solution or two.

altheman Loc: Christchurch, New Zealand

If you want comprehensive instructions on how the library module works then go to this site the videos are for Lightroom 4 but not much has changed when it comes to the library module.
http://en.elephorm.com/tuto-lightroom-4-complete-training.html

Bloke Loc: Waynesboro, Pennsylvania

I like to control my uploads myself, rather than import from the card. I do end up with the pictures in 2 places, but one of those is my 'do-not-touch original' file - a backup, basically. The other is in the LR 'domain', and is the one that gets worked on.

I *did* have some issues with import, back when I started. I have tried twice to check and see exactly what my settings are, but my LR is not responding for some reason. As soon as I hit import, I get the circling cursor and the screen greys out. I might need a reboot, I guess...

Number 3 is easy - just watched a video on collections at Kelbyone a few days ago. You can set up a smart collection, and have it automatically include any criteria you use. If you use 'pick' to select your best shots, then have it include all picks. If you use the star rating, then you can set it to include all shots with your required number of stars. This sounds more complicated than it is. With a smart collection, as soon as you mark a photo as 'picked', it will automatically appear in the collection.

When I export, I just send the files to a subfolder underneath the 'home' folder for that shoot. That way, if I want to go back and get it again, it is already there. I am not keen on having software automatically access online stuff like FB. It's somewhere else to have passwords stored, apart from anything else. I just upload to FB while I am logged in on there.

I don't know if it is the best PP program or not. It suits my purposes pretty well. I like the non-destructive aspect, and it can do pretty much all my every-day editing. If you want to use layers, you have to pass the photo to PS, but the new features in LR 6 have cut out a lot of that necessity for me. There are lots of other programs out there, but, like it or not, Adobe is the 800lb gorilla in the field. Some people will swear by other program, but if you need support, there are always going to be more users who are knowledgeable about LR and PS. For many years I used ancient versions of PS, because the current version was way out of my price range. Having access to a constantly-updated current version for $10 a month is beyond my wildest dreams of a few years ago!

I would stick with LR for a little longer - once it all comes together for you, I think you will be glad you did.

tomcat

You lost me on the very first line, when you used the word "Windows". I have no idea how to help or what you are talking about (long-time Mac user)....lolx5

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

It's ok, for every Mac user there are at least 9 Windows guys that can help. LOL :)

Hell, I am a long time Win user, and I can still help those with Macs - do it all the time, actually - no magic, no mystery, just a funky user interface that likes to hide stuff (Mac OS, that is).

tomcat

Just don't try to help too many Mac users, Gene. You might screw up their good sense with your hidden implications. lol